phonics experts -come and settle an argument

[sausagesandwich34]

scone it's an oldy but a goody!

pronounced to rhyme with cone or gone?

does the magic 'e' come into play?

does the magic 'e' even exist anymore?

Or sound her name the way she spells it

Maizie- I am not " starting" on anyone.

I am not going to get into a silly kind of "I have been teaching longer than you" but all I will say is that I am close to teachers' retirement age. Whether this is longer or not than Mrz I don't know nor do I care really. No one has the monopoly on giving advice here so if it ruffles anyone's feathers when another teacher comes along that's rather silly.

My feathers aren't ruffled Missbopeep

There's no feather ruffling involved. It's just the tendency to correct everybody with what you regard to be 'right'.

I'm afraid there are no 'non-phonetic' words in English...

Sorry, everyone is at perfect liberty to give advice on here, but only if it is asked for...

So lots of nice smooth feathers here

Horse poo is horse poo. It doesn't matter how near the retirement age a person is.

Miss BP
No one has the monopoly on giving advice here so if it ruffles anyone's feathers when another teacher comes along that's rather silly.

Indeed, Miss bp, indeed.

'I'm afraid there are no 'non-phonetic' words in English... '

ha ha that's only because phonics proponents make up a new rule for every exception!!!

Or because they say all words are made up of sounds therefore all words are phonic, making the definition of phonic useless. Using that definition phonics might as well be renamed words because under the definition above there is no difference between the two.

which exceptions would those be socharlette?

'Phonetics' is concerned with speech sounds. Can someone give me an example of a word which has no speech sounds in it?

MrZ
For 'ough I learned the following sentence'
Though the rough cough and hiccough plough me through

other common words following the pattern

Though- dough
Rough- tough enough
cough (can't think of any)
hiccough (none)
plough- bough
through
(I am excluding proper nouns because they can say anything you want!)
If, out of the tens of thousands of words in common usage in the English language none of them or only one or 2 follow the same pattern, then you cannot really say that it is a rule.They are exceptions.

But phonicsy people are cleverer than that, socharlotte. If there are fifty ways of writing the sound eee they just say there are fifty ways of writing the sound eee and leave people to get on with it. Then the only rule is there are fifty ways of writing it. It doesn't matter to them that two of those ways are only used once each in the entire language.

They also say some daft things like earth starts with the sound er (as in error) which it clearly doesn't unless you say erth (which I don't.)

An interesting question is if a word has multiple sounds and multiple meanings how do you read it using sounds? minute, bow, sow and so on.

An interesting question is if a word has multiple sounds and multiple meanings how do you read it using sounds? minute, bow, sow and so on.

Quite simple- you use the context. Even as adults when we read we have to do this.

Eg The couple had a row ( as in a boat or as in a ding-dong) The passage you are reading tells you which.

I agree, you use context. Context is used all the time when reading.

If you changed spelling to follow new rules, you would have to get people to change the way they speak too.

For instance some people rhyme bath and chat and book and shoot and some people don't. Imagine if somebody changed the spelling of bath to barth?

I for one would be finding an air raid shelter and preparing for the next civil war.

Also, would this extend to place names? It would be war.

(Except nobody would know how to spell war, because somebody would have to come up with a spelling to distinguish it from car)

(Or maybe they would say wore which wouldn't really help matters one bit).

other common words following the pattern

Though- dough
Rough- tough enough
cough (can't think of any)
hiccough (none)
plough- bough
through

If, out of the tens of thousands of words in common usage in the English language none of them or only one or 2 follow the same pattern, then you cannot really say that it is a rule.They are exceptions.

I would never say there is a rule (there are no rules) but I would also say that by definition, "an exception would indicate that that no other word uses that spelling to represent the same sound and from your list that is clearly untrue of the words you have written socharlotte

We'd probably have to start rhyming mall and tall like the Americans. It just doesn't bear thinking about.

If you changed spelling to follow new rules, you would have to get people to change the way they speak too.

No we wouldn't. What on earth makes you think that?

Lands,

They also say some daft things like earth starts with the sound er (as in error) which it clearly doesn't unless you say erth (which I don't.)

The only person saying daft things is you.