How long would you travel for an outstanding primary school?

[Quijanotango]

Thinking about where to send my little one...primaries next to our home are very satisfactory. We have visited them and they are not an option. They are also oversubscribed since population in our borough is increasing by the hour.
We are catholic but the nearest catholic school is well out of our catchment area.Not an option either.
There is an outstanding catholic school close to my work where we could get a place based on the last 10 years stats. We attend church and this would put us in a stronger position than people living closer but no catholic. there is no sibling policy either. The problem is that it is a 45 min drive from home. Little one would have to travel with us leaving home around 7.45am and I'm feeling guilty already...Dropping off and picking up would not be a problem.
Moving is not an option. We love our house and we are in the catchment area from a very good secondary school.
Private not an option.
By the way, my husband and I are both in education and fully understand ofsted reports and school results.
What would you do? I'm losing sleep over this...Any opinions would be highly appreciated.

I haven't judged our potential school just by the Ofsted but by the head etc. The head is very impressive at the one we are considering but I am a little concerned about what would happen if he left. DD would be in wrap around care at either school so if anything the drive would buy me a little more time with her.

I wouldn't.
We live round the corner from our school, and that is one reason the school works for us. But I have 3 dcs, so if we had to travel, we would constantly be hanging around waiting for one to finish an after school club.

My kids were shattered in the first couplel of years at school. The year 5 still gets tired, I wouldn't add 45 minute comute onto that.

Secondary is different, but 45 mins for a 4 year old is a lot

re ofsted, actually you can get a good teacher in a bad school and a bad teacher in a good school.

I wouldn't actually go by ofsted at all. We moves 1.5 years ago and I visited 10-12 primary schools in our new town. Every time we saw a house I liked I visited the school.
It soon became apparent that the things I liked were not really related to ofsted. Things like atmosphere, self confidence of kids showing me round, or the enthusiasm of the secretary/staff member said a lot. Art work on the walls, evidence of outdoor learning. Then things like how they responded when I asked about how they stretch the bright kids. What the classrooms felt like (busy active but on task) what was on the walls (written work by year 6 that was rubbish!) and so on.

I agree with Farewelltoarms.

I used to travel by bus to school 1.5 hours in the morning and 1 hour at night. I hated it. It was a huge waste of my childhood, none of my friends lived anywhere near me and all I remember is being in a permanent state of exhaustion.

Now as an adult I refuse to live further than 2 miles from work/town/station/shops etc and I walk or cycle there. I've done all my commuting for life.

The social side is the tricky one...

I grew up in the countryside and went to a private prep school where a large % were full boarders and the rest were day-pupils from a wide area.

Our parents decided it would be nice for us to have friends in the village and so sent us to Brownies - we discovered that the other kids all knew each other from school and weren't too interested in letting us join in.

We now live in London and have a situation where DD is friends with kids at nursery and school as well as with all our friend's children. We often travel up to 1.5 hours across London for a birthday party or playdate - but that is where it's a case that we see our friends and the kids can play. For that reason it doesn't bother me if DD eventually goes to school well outside the local area.

So, look at what social life you can offer her - and don't bank on her being able to do the after-school activities in a small village whilst attending a different school.

Thanks Pyrrah. We actually live in London, and your long trips to isit friends with children describe our weekends. We are lucky enough to have a circle of friends with children that live in different parts of London. My best friend lives 10 min drive from home and my DD gets on really well with her boy. Would my daughter really miss on opportunities to socialise with children from our neighbourhood if she attends a school that is far away? I'm not sure she has that much spare time TBH...
Regarding ofsted graing, I do know that outstanding means the world, but results do. When a school does not meet national averages in terms of L4 and no children reach L5 in Maths, it worries me. I guess maybe being in London makes me see things differently and long commutes seem to be part of our everyday life when they really shouldn't?

I think the difficulty is not so much now - although the journey will be tough on her. It will be when she is older. I had family friends in my town who went to a school 30 minutes away for senior school. It was hard for them in the younger years because they didn't have local friends and couldn't really see much of those who lived quite a distance away. (Bit easier once they were older and could do buses, but that obviously doesn't apply to an 8 year old, I'm thinking 15 or so). I know they found school holidays tough.

I would try to think about this for an 8 year old as well as a four year old IYSWIM

Also, if you don't mind me asking, does she have/is she likely to have siblings? It's worth thinking about them both wanting to play with friends who live an hour away from the house in opposite directions if so.

No siblings planned I'm afraid. All School holidays are spent overseas With my family by the beach. As I mentioned earlier on, I'm lucky enough to enjoy as much holiday as her and to have parents who live in Spain ;-)

Fair enough. I hope it wasn't an indelicate question. I just thought it was worth asking re siblings.

It is probably worth bearing in mind that a 10 year old might not want to spend all the holidays with family in Spain (though if she doesn't want to come, can I?).

Also worth bearing in mind that she may develop strong opinions on wanting to go to a secondary school close to her primary school. I know you can overrule, but if the primary has strong links to a good nearby secondary, just make sure you've mentally prepared for that battle.

Good question regarding not wanting to come to Spain or wherever we decide to go. In my opinion, 10 year olds don't decide where to go or not to go. They can have an opinion and they'll be listened to, but adults decide. And I really hoe we never have to cross that bridge since bth my husband and I believe that spending time with her cousins and grandparents is really important since we have no family in the uk. You are all making me think really hard, that was the point! Thanks

Yes, I do totally agree that it is your decision whether you spend the holidays in Spain. My point was really the one you picked up on - about having an opinion they want listened to. And also that, as children get older, some time 'at home' can become quite important. As she goes into secondary and has exams to study for that is obviously more of an issue, and you hope to have a close by secondary.

I don't quite follow all the drop off and pick up arrangements. But it all seems to hang quite heavily on the au pair. I presume you have thought through what would happen if she left? Would she be easy enough to replace? Would there be any circumstances where you would stop having an au pair (financial, when your daughter is older) that might impact on how easy the travel is?

I drove DD to her nursery for 1 year by car. We moved but couldn't find any equally good setting for her.

Each drive took 15-20 minutes plus a couple of minutes walk from car park to nursery.

I was glad the year was over. I was fed up with traffic jam and road work, icy windscreens I need to get free before I could start and a tired and whinging DD in the car.

I live in SE London and I know good schools are difficult to find but I agree with some other PP, Ofsted is not everything. We saw 5 schools, 4 "good" school, 1 outstanding. the outstanding one and one of the good were just awful. Yes on paper they looked great but it was the gut feeling that DD would be very unhappy there.

She is now in an Infant school which had a couple of bad points like smaller outside space, less opportunity for PE, a "negative" comment about their Maths policy. But: she absolute loves it there, she is in Y1 now and gains knowledge like a sponge. The school has a warm and nurturing feeling and we see how they deal with SEN kids (extra class plus a SEN boy in DD's class). All this confirmed to us making the right decision not to go for the "First class" on Ofsted school.

Do you have semi-firm plans for secondary?

I think being in London does make a big difference to the situation. Commuting to everything is pretty normal! It also isn't a case of everything outside school involving the same small cohort of children like it is in a small village.

DH and I want to encourage friendships between all our friend's children (who are pretty much all born in the same year) which will leave very little time for socialising locally. We also both come from large families with lots of cousins of the same age.

We're planning a move either to the private sector for secondary, or a house move to an area with better secondaries, so I am not too concerned about having too firm a friendship group locally.

I was very sad to live miles from my primary. I missed all the fun at weekend.
Are you being seduced by the outstanding?
We walk to school, its fab, children can play in the park after school, walk with friends etc

Very firm plans for secondary. Our house in in he catchment area of a great school.
Yes, London is a different story all together. Maybe it is difficult to visualise our nearest primary without me sounding snobbish, but I stopped going to the park due to the charming group of mums that spent the afternoon there drinking wine directly from the bottle and smoking pot after collecting their children from that school. I know this does to describe all the families that send their children there but somehow explains the ofsted report, the very high percentage of fsm children and the underachievement. I would like a more balanced intake for my daughter to grow up with.

I drive 15 minutes to school in London and it's a pita.

I've dropped out of morning run and dh takes ds1 by train.

It really is a drag and I didn't realise how lucky I was to be under 5 minutes away at his previous school.

So I'd try and avoid it.

That should be 15-20 minutes. With 5 minute walk from car. So by the time you've been there and back it's around 50 minutes.

My DD's school is 1.4km from where we live. We can walk it (there are lots of roads to cross) in 20 minutes, or we can take a slightly erratic bus (5 to 10 minutes, depending on traffic). Frankly, that is far enough for me! Her friends live locally and I can run errands on the school run, which is pretty essential IMVHO.

Friendship-wise it hasn't been a problem for ds1. Although he gets invited to friends' houses near the school and I must admit the thought of bringing children all the way over here isn't as appealing. He goes to parties as everyone else does.

It's more my life that has changed, and am trying to find a way around it. I dislike being so dependent on the car and in traffic.

I see that you are not doing the driving, not sure if that changes things by very much.

Parking near my DD's school is such a headache that only the families that live furthest away and/or are car-addicted bother to drive. I admit that I wouldn't like to be car-dependent for the school run. I hope DD will soon be able to take the bus home by herself (there are no roads to cross if she does)!

I really dislike that it is an effort but not a physical one, I'd rather have a bracing walk. At least you are getting some exercise in the half an hour.

Parking is ok, but I just go for a side street that is a bit further away rather than battle it out.

I need to change the situation somehow.

I'd make completely sure said school was consistently "Outstanding" and likely to remain "Outstanding".I speak as a parent with dc at a school that plummeted from "Outstanding" to "Satisfactory".I have friends now doing a journey for a non great school ie you could well end up doing the journey for a "Satisfactory" school. Make sure there is something to keep you there if that should happen.

Yes, I feel that I am keeping our halos straight by walking at a brisk pace on the school run!

As the parent of an only child I would not underestimate the importance of local friends.

When they are tiny they are friends with the children of your friends, but as soon as they start school they make their own friends and the whole dynamic changes. And by 7 or 8 a girl will not want to play with a boy, mostly. 6 years of not having local friends sounds quite hard.

I think I would put DD in reception at the outstanding school or even a bad local one and put her on the waiting list of your local Ctholic school and any other decent school in the area. There will be a lot of movement in London and the short term pain would be worth it.

She's very likely to get a place before Y3.

I sa this as a teacher who left London for this reason!