Forced baby behaviour?

[learnandsay]

Are simplistic phonics books good, bad or neutral? If a Reception child can already read Ladybird stories such as Three Little Pigs, Where the Wild Things Are, Dr Seuss, etc, etc, etc but they're bringing home apparently the whole ORT 1+ range comprising of nothing but CVC words which present no challenge and no learning opportunity either, is reading them:

(1) a waste of time, reading time is precious, doesn't it make more sense to spend it on reading words which present a learning opportunity?

(2) potentially leading towards reading becoming uninteresting

(3) promoting ignorance - if the child can read the names of countries already the child could be reading sentences like: The Nile is the longest river in the world, instead of sentences like Dot got a pot and Bot got Dot's pot. Pat pat pat, tap tap tap.

In summary, would the time be better spent reading something useful?

Their reading levels are being assessed after half term, according to the op, mrz. The teacher will then know the appropriate level for each child.
Op's decided she can't wait that long, even though it's next week.

I can kind of see where you are coming from, but I think you are stressing over nothing really. I can''t believe you need the advice of MN to write comments in a reading diary!

My overwhelming feeling after reading this thread, however, is just be fecking grateful that your dd can read so well, and finds it so easy.

My dd in Year 4 is still struggling and seriously, what I would do for my dc to find learning to read easy, like your dd. Oh my God, what I would do.

And I know you will totally disregard that comment because you only care about your own dd.

I would LOVE to be in your position, really I would.

Floggingmolly I can give my class appropriate books without a formal reading assessment. The teacher should know now!

Thanks, Kerry. Of course I won't disregard your comment and no, I don't only care about my child. I only say that when people talk about the other children in the class as though it was the solution. I do quite see that compared with you I've got a kind of non-problem. I do so hope you get your daughter's reading sorted out.

Me to

But schools do things differently. OPs school had told her that reading levels will be assessed after half term ie in a couple of weeks, and asked her to write comments about school books in her child's reading record in the meantime.

This is perfectly reasonable and clear, though OP seems intent on making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I think the hyperbole in the thread title didn't really do much for her cause.

Why are they giving out books if the accurate allocation depends on a test they haven't even administered!

No idea - I don't work there.

But I think it's important to remember that OP is talking about her child's reading record, not the Magna Carta. It's not a document that needs philosophical angst about.

In answer to your OP, I've no idea whether simplistic reading books are good, bad or otherwise, although I'd suspect that a few weeks of simplistic books to be whizzed through then supplemented with other books are unlikely to cause harm. However, from your description, your response to the teacher's simple request is the factor most likely to be damaging to your child's educational experience.

I don't work there either but it seems a mixed up way to do things.
Agree the OP is giving the reading record far greater importance than necessary.
Reading a book that is easy isn't forced baby behaviour.

Sometimes when I've run out of things to say in the reading record I just draw a smiley face and sign it! And dd draws one too, one day she said the book was boring so I got her to write, "I didn't enjoy this story today" and she drew a cross face! Ha ha

learnandsay you may have noticed (or could not fail to really) that your comments can 'get people's backs up'. Perhaps it may be prudent for you to think about the titles of your threads in future.

'My child is given totally inappropriate reading books' would be ok, but you title your thread with 'Forced baby behaviour?'. This comes across as more than a little superior in tone. It would have to be a seriously intelligent baby to be able to read CVC words.

Whilst you may have taught your daughter to read fantastically well - and you should be congratulated for the time and energy you have both put into that - ORT stage 1+ is not an inappropriate level for this stage in reception. If your dd was bringing home Usbourne touchy feely books you may have a point about 'forced baby behaviour', but I don't think that's the case.

There are a great many primary teachers on MN who take pride in teaching young children to read successfully - against a political backdrop of ever changing goalposts. We teachers are not perfect, but are best worked with rather than against.

Maybe the comments in the book will be part of the assessment - they may be looking to see if the child is being read with at all, is keen to read, is finding it hard, is reluctant but quite likes it once they've started, is worried about getting it right/wrong, has an idea of blending when away from the class environment or not. I am not a teacher but I imagine this kind of information would be useful in deciding what kinds/levels of books to start off with. And I imagine it takes a while to collate all the information from home and school. I wouldn't give a reluctant child of my own particularly stretching books to begin with as I'd probably reason that it would be better for them to experience success to start with and hence build up confidence and enjoyment slowly. Another child might get on better with something a bit more difficult than they can completely manage alone because they positively enjoy the puzzle aspect of learning to read.

Honestly, my daughter got very easy books to begin with at school. She whizzed through them and I wrote 'read this very easily' or 'this was very easy - 100% correct' or whatever and when they gave her something a bit harder but still too easy I went to talk to the teacher and pointed out that she was reading Frog and Toad at home and could she have something just a little bit more challenging because it was hard to get her to want to read the really easy books (and I did want her to get the idea that what you are asked to do at home by your teachers is something you need to do and probably ought to want to do). The whole process took about three weeks and it wasn't really that much of a problem because she was still being read to and with at home. As is the OP's DD if she is reading her mum poetry.

And I don't remember being asked to read the blurb to my child.

radical, that's a very good point. Starting to learn to read at 4 is hardly being 'babyish'.

When we do guided reading,we read the blurb...but it is just the bit of text on the back explaining what the book is about...not all the publishing gumph!! We ask them to comment on what they think is going to happen or what type of book (fiction,non-fiction )and as they progress they should be abe to tell what features they can expect to find,etc.

As for teaching expression with the so called "baby-books"...they will doubtless have been talking about question marks and exclamation marks, and how your voice changes when reading them.

My own son (DS2) could read when he started Foundation, aged 3. He was given level 4 books to start with, whilst the other children had no word picture books to begin with.(His Foundation teacher wanted to make sure that he was understanding what he was reading.)
I did not actively teach him to read....amazingly he just could! But I left it to school for him to progress. He very quickly progressed to free reading by year 2. He would read "proper" books at home. But I would just sign the reading diary saying "read well," or "read with ease" etc. I was proud of his ability, but he was never under any pressure to be ahead of everyone. He is still an avid reader, and his favourite book at the moment (he is 12) is James May's Man Lab!

I think I have responded to three similar posts recently. My eldest son could read very well (a few years ahead) when he started reception and I think I have a more balanced view on this.

I agree that teachers have to ensure that all reception children have the same firm base on which to build upon. Let them get on with doing their standard phonics in the classroom, it will only take a short time all in all. I agree that reception should be mostly play based and less academic. Personally I wouldn't touch the books he is bringing home and instead spend lots of time in the library letting him find books that inspire and interest him. Tell the school you are doing this - I did and it was accepted. One thing you do need to check is that he has good comprehension to match his good reading skills.

I think they will eventually realise how well he can read and give the right level books but it might take a while. Be patent and don't stress. It must be nice for you son to feel able and confident in such a new situation.

When the assessment actually happens does anybody think it's likely to be this 1a, 1b, 1c malarkey? Or just an unofficial back-of-an-envelope reckoning?

Back of an envelope? It will certainly be 'unofficial'. What exactly is there to be official about a reception child's reading level 5 weeks into their school career? Really you are so over-thinking this!

The 1a, b , c business doesn't even apply to reception anyway, they're NC levels for children who are in KS1+ which starts in year 1. You will probably be told their NC level at some point though so as well to familiarise yourself with it (I'm sure you already have...)

The assessment is likely to be an informal decision by the teacher that child A needs to stick with the simplest books for now, child B can move up a bit, and child C can move up further. It could also be a decision that child D could move to a particular level for now, but is likely to go up a level soon after if all goes well.

thanks, titchy.

Um, I've found a Children's Services guide to NC book band colours, but different reading schemes use their own colours. How do parents know which colours to follow? I've just read a thread on TES where the staff can't even figure it out so I'm guessing parents have no fecking chance! Would that be fair!

'Forced baby behaviour', wtf?!?! They are 4 years old! If your super-duper-advanced 4 year old can read like an 8 year old, then that's fantastic, but 4 IS actually a fairly standard age to start learning to read. It's not 'baby behaviour' by any stretch of the imagination, and it's pretty insulting to call it that for the vast majority of the children in the class who are just starting out on their learning-to-read journey or god forbid, actually struggling already.

If your DD is enjoying herself, then why not revel in your good fortune?! If she starts getting bored, that's a different matter, but she is only 6 weeks into term. She'll have enough on her plate making friends, zipping up her own coat and negotiating the lunch hall.

I don't understand why you're so worried about all this, I really don't. You can have a look at sample books from various reading schemes eg on Oxford Owl. You probably know what your daughter can read and what she can't. Why does it matter which band or colour it is? I imagine that parents who aren't so worried about the whole thing just take their kids to the bookshop or library and pick some books they might enjoy together (and don't worry too much about book bands). That is what I did and it seems to have worked out OK.

Also, don't forget that all the phonics work is as much about learning to write as to read, and form letters properly etc.

Haberd, normally I'm not worried about it. But I got thinking about assessments and then decided to read a DESF report on reading, then a report on bookbands. I thought there might have been a chance that I'd understand it. But when I saw the teachers in TES failing to understand it I figured it's not possible. I think that'll be my first and last foray into comparative book banding.

If the school have more than one scheme, then they will have made a decision based on where they think the relevant levels are and how to use them together - but since the schemes are all different, I don't think it's surprising that there isn't a single "right answer" to how one scheme relates to another. They aren't designed to work that way.

In general, parents don't need to know "which colours to follow" - their child reads what the teacher sends home with them, the parent makes comments about it being easy/hard/boring in the reading record, and the parents and child themself pick out other books from the shop/library on the basis that they look interesting.

You seem to be very focussed on this particular aspect of your daughter's education. Most parents, while they care about their child's progress, do not get anywhere near as involved in every little detail of how the school is approaching the teaching of reading, and assume that paid and trained professionals might actually be capable of doing this without parents recreating every step of the journey in their own way.