Reading - a bit ashamed of myself - am I completely wrong?

[albachiara]

My DS (almost 8yo) is an ok reader, I guess, but I would expect better (I think I'm comparing him to his sister at the same age, and her reading age was probably 3 years above his - she loved reading, writing, pleasing the teacher, etc etc).

I read to him, we have lots of books in the house, we go to the library where he's free to choose the books that he likes (usually either comics, or books with lots of colourful pictures). I don't mind his choice of books, I think he needs to read books that he enjoys, as long as he reads something, I'm happy.

However, I also try to read with him a few times a week (they don't bring home any reading books from school anymore, which is not bad, so I can pick what I want... ). However, when he reads to me, he makes lots of mistakes such as:

1. skipping little words, or not reading the "s" at the end of words
2. adding words that are not in the text (for ex: reading "wake up" instead of just "wake"
3. reading a word instead of another (for ex: saying "for" instead of "of")
4. reading "Mrs" miss or mister

He can decode words and read more difficult words, for ex: measurements, bulletin, but at the same time, he still makes the above mistakes.

So, today I lost it!!! Whenever he read "of" instead of "for", for ex., I made him write "of" 10 times, and "for" 10 times, same with Mr and Mrs, or when he added a word or missed a word (these are usually short words, so he was lucky!) We had to do this for 4 times on the first page, but then he read 4 more pages with no mistakes (or he made mistakes, but he corrected them).

I think this shows that he's careless, and lazy. Is my approach wrong? I don't really believe in dislexia, and I got his eyes checked. I do think he doesn't really care if he makes mistakes, unless there are consequences.

I also yelled at him, which was wrong, but I had lost my patience by then. I did praise him when he read 4 pages with no mistakes, though. I told him that from now on he will have to read with me and we will follow the same strategy (writing the misread words).

Oh, I also test him about comprehension, and if he doesn't know the answer, I ask him to re-read the page to find the answer. His strategy would be to look at me, and wait for me to hint what the answer would be.

I know this will not make him love reading, but I am afraid that if he doesn't practise he will never be a fluent reader, and he will never enjoy reading because it will always be too hard for him.

Am I a bad mother?

If it makes you feel better OP many boys don't start living up to their potantial till secondary. I am sure if you just gently encourage him he will get there and ignore that teacher, I can see why it gave you worry but it will all even out

Dear Quip,
thank you for the helpful advice. I will try that! A nice star chart and at the end some kind of tangible reward... (maybe a book? )

Just reading between the lines...

Alba, please don't lose sight of the purpose of reading, and wanting to read for meaning. Is it just the school reading scheme books he makes the mistakes with? If he reads, say, a good book with pictures about something he likes, does he make fewer mistakes? If so, it sounds like the reading scheme books don't capture his imagination. ( Or looking at it another way, he feels entitled to only read things he wants to, maybe? Or perhaps he is struggling with the level being too hard or too easy?)

Sorry if I am on the wrong track, but the way you describe his reading sounds like he needs to understand what he's reading (or put more expression in, if easy for him. Hard to tell without meeting him! Would be worth talking to his teacher again and asking about comprehension, and word games.

Do his mistakes impair his comprehension?
If not, then I wouldn't worry.

I learned languages at school/uni and we were encouraged to read as much as possible in the foreign language and not to worry if we didn't know every word. I learned to work things out from context and the words surrounding the unknown word. Surely the same principle applies to learning to read in your native language? It was a good way to learn new vocab and grammatical structures.

Sorry, I worded that badly..I meant to say that apart from the yelling, most of your strategies sound great. Try to make it fun for both of you, we all learn more that way.

HappyTurquoise, he doesn't bring home any reading books from school anymore. I really don't mind this, as last year they were not very interesting.

He likes reading "Annuals", or the "Lego Character dictionary", or the picture books that I used to read to them when they were little. He likes looking at (not sure if he reads them) books about space, or science. I got "facts" books from the library, the ones that are quite simple, but there are not many of them. He loves the Usborne "See Inside" series books (the ones with the little flaps). I would like him to read and enjoy books such as "Flat Stanley", even the "Beast Quest" ones, but he has told him he doesn't like long (!!!) books. He says he doesn't like fiction, but I pointed out to him that he really enjoys listening to CDs of ficion books!

You mentioned talking to his teacher. I think he reads ok in class, even with expression! But he doesn't bother with that at home! Maybe I should start a star chart for his home reading, as Quip suggested.

I think you are right about comprehension! But again, if I don't make him read at home, and I don't discuss with him what he has read, how can he ever improve. Lots of you said to "leave it to the school". I think that with 30 children in a class, the teacher doesn't have much time to discuss books with each child. Do you really trust the school so much? Not that schools are bad, but they don't have that much time.

gallicgirl, I agree with you. You don't need to understand every single word to understand the meaning of a passage. But if he is asked to solve, for ex., a word problem in Maths, and he reads a little word wrong, or if he skips a word like "not", then the comprehension of the word problem might be totally wrong.

I don't correct him when he wants to read to me in the evening (to delay going to bed...), but I expect good accuracy when I warn (!!!) him that I want him to be careful, not to skip words, etc.

I think I feel deeply hurt because I love reading, his dad reads a lot, his sister etc etc., but he seems to find reading such a chore. Why? I have to admit that I also do not understand how he can build lego models correctly, when I get all confused if I try to help him!

Maybe he is dyslexic? I know you don't think he is, but good spatial awareness combined with making mistakes with "little" words or missing some words out when reading; can be a sign of Dyslexia or related conditions.
Do you think you could ask him what he sees when he reads? Don't prompt him but ask him? You could also see whether he makes less mistakes under certain light conditions, or at a different time of the day, or even when reading to someone else (including the dog).

Please don't over react to small mistakes. A friend of mine works as a drama therapist with children who have become afraid of books, you don't want your son to need her services.

I think your last post might show the crux of the problem. You don't value what he is good at as much as you value what he happens to be not so good at. It sounds like he is going to be the engineer or scientist in the family!

On of my friends from school hated reading but loved science. The teachers tried getting him to read facts and research but he wasn't interested. He was too busy testing his own theories! He is now very well respected in his chosen field.

Regarding the maths problems - if he likes maths he is likely to spend more time reading the question. If you are noticing that he is making errors then test your theory with him. It might make him more careful in future if he can see how sloppy reading can cause him problems.

Hi,

I do not thnik that you are a bad mother at all. Everybody would like that their children wouldbe wery good at what they are doing (e.g: reading, math, science, painting, PE etc...).

BUT what you are doing is purley wrong. Beleive me I am speaking by experience. My son started Reception, I think he is a very good reader. however not free reader. So he got his first reading book and I was so excited on that day, he was not, becuase I think the book was boring. But I force him to read it, I was shouting and I lost my temper, etc... I knew that I am doing is wrong I just could not accept that he does not want to read that silly easy book for me properly, when I know he is more capable. So he cried, but we finished the book. It was a VERY BAD experience for him (and me). I am not pruod of what I did at all. It happened the first week in September and it was onlt a one off occasion. I apologized and I told him it never ever will happen again. Since then we read every day, but before we start he asks me every time, to get reassurance that I won't be mad at him again. Every time I need to tell him I won't be angry no matter how he will read. And I think he never will forget that terrible experience and because of this he never will be as good reader and he never will like books as much as he would without this terrible experience. So please do not do this with him.

Why do not try something else? Why do not ask his teacher how can you help him to solve this problem in a fun way? Do you sit in a quiet room together when he reads or there are lots of noise and other staff around him, so he is not able to concentrate properly? Why do not you give him reward if he does something good and only correct him if he does something wrong? Does he have all of your attention when he reads? He probably does these silly mistakes to get your full attention. Do you read for him as well? So he can enjoy books without the hassle of reading and he can realize if he reads as well as mummy he will enjoy books more. Why do not make reading time a special "mummy and child" time for him when you are together and nobody else there so he has your attention and be a bit "crazy" and when he reads something correctly that you would not expect give him lots of kiss and hug and that sort of things. Tell them after reading you can do something together what he likes the best.

Does he have glasses? Did a doctor check his eyes properly? Missing small words, or letter, putting small words that are not there it can be eye problem. My son did these and he wears glasses now and we do not have any more missing words, letters etc.

Also please be patient with him he is only 8 years old and he is probably not as good reader as your daughter but girls and boys develop differently. Probably you can tell a couple of other things that your son can do better that your daughter (e.g.: math, building with lego, thinking more logically, etc..)

I think what you would like to achieve is not bad. You would like to support your child and that is great. He should be happy that he has parents who would like to support them throughout on his education life and further. BUT the way how you would like to approach it is not good and you probably will do more harm than good without realizing it. Hope you change your mind and try something else that is more fun and happy for your SON and YOU too. Best wishes.

P.S: Sorry for the long answer.

OP - just wanted to add that you are not alone in getting frustrated when listening to a DC read (although I do think that making him write out the words is not the answer!!).

My DD is 7 (P3 in Scotland) and I sometimes find it infuriating when listening to hear read. She sounds very like your DS in that she can sound out incredibly difficult words but then mixes up 'of' and 'for' or 'from', 'the' for 'her' etc. I pick her up on it as she doesn't seem to realise that what she has done doesn't make sense. I ask her to read the sentence again and 99/100 times she gets it right.

I do think it is just rushing or seeing what she thinks she should see - this also applies to not saying the 's' at the end of a word, or adding in extra ones. When she does this, I say show me the 'xx' that you've just said. The teacher says that she is doing really well so I (and you) possibly just need to chill out a bit and try to not make reading a chore.

Our reception teacher gave us some instructions about reading at home. They say NOT to correct the child if they substitute or miss a word in a way that doesn't impair the sense of the sentence. But if it does impair the sense, then correct them.

I realise your boy is older, but I wonder if that advice is still sound. You say it would be worrying if he missed a word like 'not' - but is he missing words like that, or just ones that don't cause a comprehension problem?

I think some people mentally rephrase/paraphrase when they read. My DH does (and he has a first from an Oxbridge college). He is incapable of learning poetry, because he rewords everything in his head even while he's reading. He gets the 'sense' of it though, often more thoroughly than others would (e.g. he reads and understands complex philosophical books which would totally confuse most people).

So, I wouldn't focus so tightly on this detail of how your son reads. Read together and talk about the book (to check comprehension). Maybe get him to write or tell 'his' version of the story afterwards. I think your son is just a different type of person to you (or his sister) and you are in danger of making him feel that means he's a less capable type of person. (You don't have to say that outright for him to pick up on it). When actually, he is (as you say elsewhere) perfectly capable, just in a different way.

My DD is a bit younger than your son but she had some of the same issues around not concentrating when she's reading at the beginning of this school year. What worked for us (after I had also got cross with her and then felt rather ashamed of myself because I did know it was counterproductive) was to go back to basics a bit and any time she got something a bit wrong because of having not looked, I'd ask her nicely to do it again and to look carefully. I also offered her a reward chart. If she gets five happy faces (which equals five books or chapters read without me having to remind her to look carefully) she gets a pound to spend as she likes. I obviously don't count it as a mistake if she's properly concentrating on sounding out a hard word but just gets it slightly wrong because the important thing is that she is actually trying.

We discussed it beforehand and I pointed out that I knew it was wrong of me to yell at her but also it was wrong that she wasn't trying her best so if she would try her best to read properly then I would not shout and we'd both be happier. The difference in her reading has been amazing and she has come on in leaps and bounds.

"I think I feel deeply hurt because I love reading, his dad reads a lot, his sister etc etc., but he seems to find reading such a chore."

This is the problem: it has moved from being about something practical that he needs to learn for his own sake to your feeling rejected because he is not like you.

I am in a similar situation: I have one older child who loves everything I do- books, history, art, and one younger child who really can't be doing with any of those. It does feel a bit like a rejection- but then I have to be aware that if I get too hung up about those things, as if they were all that mattered, and fail to notice all the other things he is good at and cares about (not necessarily academic things either), then that is equally a rejection of him.

I am wary because I know my db has always felt inferior to his siblings just because we happen to be clever at just the same things his parents happen to be clever at and value. He has great ability in other areas which are equally important and has made a success of life in a way our parents would never have thought of.

Marrying into a family with a totally different skills set has made me see how even my own parents, whom I admire so much, could be seen as as a disappointment to people who happened to be gifted in other areas and valued other things; it just so happens that they weren't born into those families- sheer luck of the draw.

So I try to differentiate between the bottom level- you need to do your homework or you'll get detention- and an ideal level- I would want you to love and get pleasure from these things because I do. Because I am always aware that there is a wealth of things out there that ds could learn to love and draw pleasure from - and I won't be able to show him all these, but somebody else might.

Sorry have skimmed through the thread but not read it all so sorry if I'm repeating what someone else may have said! Firstly, Have you had his eyes tested? Secondly, My DD does similar things ie skipping words, adding in words etc but I think sometimes as the books get to be more 'wordy' they struggle to follow the text and if not concentrating, easily loose their place on the page or line. We try to use a ruler or book mark under the line she's on and it does seem to help a little.

He sounds like he is reading just fine but not as good as YOU expect him too or as good as his sister.

You are not the first parent to loose the plot with reading etc. But you know you need to walk away now and let him develop at his own pace. You are nitpicking now with him.

My son was late to read - at 11 he has suddenly in the last year become really really interested in reading. He is a very good reader. But I backed off, let him choose books, read to himself without me hovering at around 9. And it has paid off. Its really important to know when to back off and let them find their own pace.

I a writer and I feel that if you fiddle with his comprehension too much - he will never learn to write as himself - he will learn to write as You! The way people talk and think is as unique as a fingerprint - let him find his own style of expressing himself. He's only 8. Comprehension will come.

I am a writer - meant to say.
Obviously not a very good one!

I am really surprised that reading books are not sent home from school. Particularly if he is not comfortable with longer chapter books. DD is Yr 3 and homeworjk every week id reading (at least 3 times and writing a sentence on what has been read).

I think rather than worry about what he is or is not doing at home I would be looking to school to see what they are doing to improve his reading.

Oh yikes alba, you are making a bit of a meal of this.

There are a points it may help to know about reading. When we (as adults) read we do not read every word. Our eyes skim over the beginnings and ends of words and our brains make a good predicitve guess at what the whole thing says. If the 'guess' is wrong the text wont make sense and we go back and check. We don't read all the words on a page and little words are generally 'filled in' by the brain not actually read.

The mistakes your ds makes all sound as though he is already doing this naturally. e.g. reading 'wake up' for 'wake', missing a plural s or Miss for Mrs . As long as what he says makes sense it is a sign he is a good reader. Missing small words that do not change the story is a sign he is understanding well and making proper sense.

Example: Mrs Brown put the spoons in the pot of honey.
Ds says 'Miss Brown put the spoon in the pot for honey. (He's retaining 95% of the meaning, of/ for no meaning loss at all and the Miss/Mrs mix up is completely normal at school where the children all mix their Mrs and Misses and everyone is 'Miss!'

Now if he'd said 'Miss Brown put the spon in the pat of hommy' I'd be a lot more concerned. He's lost the meaning, the story will be nonsense and he hasn't realised.

but he seems to find reading such a chore. Why?

Do you seriously need to ask?

What you have described your son doing is quite common for newish readers, particularly the of/for type of thing, so I don't think he is dyslexic, but neither is he careless and lazy. Reading wake up for wake is the sort of thing anyone might do if they are thinking ahead, especially if that is what they would say. Even people who are paid to read the news on the telly make the occasional mistake. Why do expect perfection in your son?

Op I think you know that it went wrong the way it was handled thats why your feeling uncomfortable. However what I think you did learn is that your son needs to be focused.. Then he reads well. This I suspect is why you feel a bit attacked and state you will continue in the early response. So the lesson to get here is how can you get him focused without making him feel reading is a chore.

Could you have a snack/drink first then move on to a quiet area and no noises before you together start to read? I think the suggestion to get him to spot what word you got wrong is a great one.

As for him finding reading a chore. My ds is in year 6 he is very able we have never had any cause for concern in his school work he gets good grades and is currently doing level 6 in school. He HATES reading for pleasure sees no point in it what so ever. yet his older two sisters (1 who is very dyslexic) and both dh and I are avid readers. He has grown up in an environment where books very very much a part of our life. It has taken me a long time to accept that it is not ds rejecting books it is simply not " his thing".. Once I stepped down on that (about a year ago) it has been a lot easier. ds reads often helps his 2 year older sister getting words her dyslexia makes it near impossible to get, also helps her with her spellings. He reads and he reads well. He just doesn't do it for pleasure. That is ok in life it is just different to most of his family.

I would however suggest "you" read up on what is normal in reading for children of this age. I suspect you will find your son is perfectly normal there..

My dd is just 8 and does exactly what you describe. It infruriates me, but I usually don't mention it unless it changes the meaning. I used to pick her up on it all the time, but found she was starting to lose expression.

My theory is a lot of it is because the books they usually read are so predictable, they expect to see wake up and not just wake, so they are anticipating it. As their books become more difficult, they still pre guess what is coming.

I think you need to step back and let him read with encouragement, for example, I will say, just check that - rather than no, thats not right and when she comes across a new word, or one out of context, i.e. last night it was 'certainly', which I am sure she has seen before, but didn't recognise, I just say try again and then help her split the word down.

I have found she will then attempt a new word herself, because she has the confidence to try it and not panic, in which case you can then say well done, you really looked at that properly and thought about it.

Positives are much more productive than negatives, but I am sure you know that.

We all lose it now and again - I lost it once very badly over some maths homework, I too am embarassed about it, but it won't happen again!

Move on, stop overthinking it, it will come in time, he is never going to be a non reader - just someone who maybe doesn't read for pleasure, but for information and there is nothing wrong with that.

You need to find something he will enjoy reading. For us it was Captain Underpants. Ds (8) was a hugely reluctant reader and would not bother to read the words on the page or make silly mistakes (he is not dyslexic). I got incredibly frustrated correcting the same mistake for the umpteenth time so we had a conversation about what to do. He loved the Captain Underpants series so we started reading that together. I also would read a page the way he did in his school book, ie not recognising punctuation and making mistakes. He soon realised how rubbish it sounded and now reads very well indeed. Didn't happen overnight though.

Well, I've gone down the leave it to school approach and the results have not been brilliant. My DS doesn't like reading, so I backed off in yr 2 and stopped getting him to read to me, as he hated it. I've a house full of books, we go to the library but he isn't interested, sometimes he just sits in the library and waits for dd and I to finish choosing as he doesn't want to get any books out for himself. Since yr2 he's slipped down and down the class in literacy. So I started homework every day, he hates it, but he has to read and / or do comprehension for 20 minutes. And, he's just moved back up a table. I accept (sadly and belatedly) that literacy isn't his thing but school just wasn't providing regular basic practice. Since I got him dong comprehensions, he can write in sentences and has leant to find the answers and retain the information in text so much better. He was not getting this basic regular practice in school. He's now yr 5 by he way.

I find it all rather depressing as he is extremely able, but only bothers to try hard in PE. Every now and then I come up with a different scheme to enthuse him, but so far no luck. I do agree that shouting isn't the answer, but unless you are extremely lucky with your school, am not sure leaving it to them is best either.