Reception child "extremely distressed" in state school, please help!

[finnmum]

Hi, I know it's still early days -she started there six days ago- but I feel I've made a big mistake by putting summer born DD2 to a state school with 31 class mates. She was in full time independent pre-school last academic year and loved it from the day one. Then we moved (and money was running out:) and found this 'outstanding' state school nearby. DD1 at Y3 loves it and everyone I have ever spoken to -parents, children and staff- are nice, it just looks like DD2 cannot cope with the class size.
On the day DD1 started last week she was so happy to go the 'big school', now she is dreading it. In the previous school the teacher shook hands and said good morning to the children at the door and everything seemed organised, now we drop them in the class room full of children running around (what happened to using 'walking legs' indoors?) and the teacher puts a name tack on their cardigans without even making an eye contact. I have never seen DD2 so profoundly sad that she has been these few days, stoic by nature she walks to the school with a wobbly lower lip, says goodbye to me and when I pick her up at 12pm (until next week when she is supposed to be full time omg) she just clings to me and has also stopped talking at home like she used to (I've lost my chatter box:). Last night she went and hit her dad when he came home from work, she has never ever been aggressive to anyone.
Today the teacher took me aside and said DD1 was "extremely distressed" the whole time and also that she was the only one who was sad. I didn't know what to say, felt guilty that it was my child who was not settling, and also guilty that I couldn't provide that child the great start DD2 got in the private sector. I know it's the lack of resources but the class room looks like a jungle, the poor teacher is telling kids (boys that are a head taller than DD2) off throwing toys, no way there is time for positive encouragement or introducing children to each other so they could work together. If I had to be in that room for seven hours I'd go insane.
Sorry ladies this was long but I don't know what to do and there is no better people than you to give me some advice. Would you wait and if she doesn't settle just pull her out and keep her home (desperate option:). Are the Reception classes normally this wild or could there be more structure with so many little ones? Any teachers out there to give me advice what I could do to help? I'm so thankful for any advice!

Oh, that makes me so sad just reading it. Your poor DD and poor you

I would go and talk to the head teacher, if it was me. The form teacher sounds overwhelmed by so many DC in her care (no wonder with 32!), and your DD seems to need some extra care and attention that just isn't there. If no suitable resolution can be reached I would pull her out. I would approach your LEA first though - ask for their advice, talk to them about transferring to another school if there is a decent one with space locally, etc.

Another thing I would like to ask you ladies as this is really new to me; on Monday the teacher said DD2 had been crying almost all day and she looked really stressed and tired when I picked her up. During the evening DD2 kept telling me that there is a group of girls in her class (she mentioned some names) who keep singing: "We are not your friends.." to DD2 and that it makes her really sad. I actually saw the group during a drop off and was wondering how early on kids start considering friendship exclusive. I mentioned what DD2 told me to the teacher -again very nicely just to let her know that there might be a reason for DD2's cry. The reply of the teacher was shocking to me; she said it's what kids do and DD2 should toughen up. Then yesterday the school called me midday and said DD2 had been sick. Obviously I thought it's autumn again and the vomiting buck is here and rushed to pick her up with apologies. As soon as she saw me she was absolutely fine, came home and wanted food, ate a lot, no sign of an illness. When she went to bed yesterday night she told me that the girls she mentioned earlier had today told her she looks really silly (DD2 has +7 vision and the glasses make her big eyes look cute but huge). When she told me that her eyes were filled with tears.

Have you thought to move your DD back to nursery? She is might not ready for the school yet and in a year time she probably will have better experience to start the school again. Not all of the 4 years old ready for school. There are lots of countries where they start the school at the age of 6.

You might get back your ?chatter box" and you have a year to help her get used to the idea of going to school and she might have a better class in a year time. If I were you I would move my child out of this unpleasant situation before she hates school for ever.

Anyway what the teacher said to you it is not acceptable. It is not your fault if they do not have enough staff. It is their responsibility to make sure that your DD is eating something during the day, because no eating won't help the situation will it? Also it is their job to help children who cry in the school even in Reception.

It does not sound an "outstanding school" for me. Sorry. Keep posting what happens with your DD.
I feel so sorry for her and you.

Thank you juneau, I feel that if I went to the head teacher it would get DD2's teacher even more defensive. Pulling DD2 out is an option but I'm thinking that this is an "outstanding" school which DD1 loves and maybe putting DD2 to another class with 30 odd children won't make difference.

Don't feel you can't say anything because the school has more children & fewer resources than a private school: ime this is not normal - my DDs' primary school (similar size) was orderly, calm & caring. A distressed reception child would be supported & lunchtime helpers would pick up on not eating (they can't monitor 250 lunches, but the youngest should be looked after). Reception had its own playground There's something very wrong here; you're not experiencing 'oustanding' state education.

TBH, I wouldn't give two hoots whether the school had been rated outstanding or not if your DD is so utterly miserable. Do you honestly think the teaching she's receiving is outstanding? Her teacher sounds either too busy to get involved (which I'm sure is true), and/or totally uncaring. The little ones in reception need to be coaxed along a bit, yet your DD is being allowed to cry all day and wander around the playground on her own. That doesn't sound too 'outstanding' to me.

If you're worried about getting the teacher's back up by going to the head, express that fear to the head, but if the teacher isn't listening or is choosing not to act on your concerns (concerns that she raised, let's not forget), then I don't think you have any other choice.

rrbrigi, that thought of moving her back to pre-school/nursery crossed my mind the other day, it's just that she loves learning, knows her letters and is proud that she read (well, not many words in it but still:) her first book I bought her this week.

Just caught up with your post of 11:23 - again, just wrong that your daughter is expected to 'toughen up'. I agree with Juneau.

Juneau, I needed that! Will have to be more assertive!

Move her. Make a big fuss and if this isn't tackled immediately, move her. It is so important that their first school experience is positive. I really feel for you.

I agree with the other posters about you seeing the headteacher. We're a year behind you - I've just applied for DS' reception place, and it was the warmth of the teaching, and the evident rapport between the children and the head teacher as he showed us round that sold it to us. Our other choice was a much smaller village school, in the next door village. It has classes of 15 and an outstanding ofted report. It also had a teacher who, when we were being shown round, spoke sharply to children in a large combined class of Reception and Yr 1. There are other factors of course, access to trips, swimming, after school clubs, school meal provision etc, but this woman managed to single handedly put us off the teaching in this "outstanding" school. DS won't be going there. However outstanding your school is, the reception teacher isn't and that needs picking up, using concrete examples, with the head teacher. They should have an anti-bullying policy and a way of ensuring that children with no-one to play with are brought into games. A truly outstanding school would have such things and actively use them.

Has her teacher always taught Reception or has she recently moved from teaching an older year group - not that that excuses her "toughen up" comment The HT may be able to shed more light on this, and you can dicuss your concerns about her suitability to manage this class. Don't feel bad about raising this - there may be other parents who have complained but you won't know. Multpile parents raising the same issue cannot be ignored.

The teacher's comments that your daughter has to toughen up (ie accept being bullied) are IMO bang out of order. Personally I would move her to another school, because even if you go to the head and complain, I don't think it will make it any easier for your daughter. If a school thinks that by ignoring bullying that they don't have a bullying problem, then it is not a school I would wish my child to attend, however much they may have fooled Ofsted into believing they are outstanding.
DS1 was baddly bullied at a 'good' school, but has been fine at his new school where any hint of bullying is taken seriously and severely jumped on straight away. Interestingly after he left his previous school that had been rated as good, was re-rated and put in special measures.

This does not sit well with me at all - especially being told your daughter needs to toughen up. She's a child fgs! I feel for you and your daughter. I think you need to make an appointment with the teacher outlining your concerns (have them in writing) and ask for written minutes of the meeting agreeing what will be done to support her settling in. Copy to the HT.

Meanwhile, have a look around the other schools in your area, try not to put think too much about the OFSTED report, go by your gut, and whether you think it suits your dd. try looking at both state and private if that's an option. This is definitely not state vs private problem, it's a poor reception setting problem. I teach reception, and I (and all my colleagues) would be working closely with you if one of our children was so distressed.

Let us know how you and dd are getting on.

Yes - your DD may be the most openly distressed about it (and I really don't like the teacher's "she's the only one" comment) but it may well be that other parents have concerns.

If you move your DD back to nursery, you can still foster her love of learning in all sorts of ways over the year (as it sounds as you're already doing, if the first book she read was one you bought her!) and also have a lot of fun doing so. I'm sure that given the smaller size of the nursery the staff will also be able to find suitable things for her to do. What do you think she herself would feel about the idea - did she feel too old for nursery when she left, or was she sad to leave?

Please go to the headteacher over this. I have experience of three state primaries and the lack of support you and DD are getting from this teacher is astounding.
So far you've mentioned DD:
Spending all day distressed and in tears. Teacher notifies you but neglects to offer any solutions.

Spending lunch alone and upset with no adults available to cheer her up or help her join her peers' games.

Regularly going without eating properly. You notice this yourself - the school is unaware until you raise it.

Being subjected to cruel teasing from a group of children with no adult intervening. School unaware until you raise it.

Compounding all of this is that, when you politely attempt to talk to DD's teacher about these very valid concerns, you are peremptorily dismissed. Comments about having 250 children at lunch and DD needing to toughen up are truly shocking!
It almost sounds as though she's trying to intimidate you into swallowing your concerns and letting DD suffer.

Have you spoken to any other parents? I cannot imagine this sort of behaviour by a reception teacher going unnoticed by others. Perhaps you could raise your concerns as a group so you don't feel you are further exposing your DD to this teacher's irritation.

Please do not be cowed by this teacher's dreadful behaviour. No child should have their first experiences of school blighted in this way.

finmum: your child is crying all day in the school? What are you waiting for? Miracle? Things will go better itself? It won't happen. Or are you waiting for your daughter hate school forever. She had more than a month to get used to it and she did not. You need to act now. Help your child right now and do not let her face this situation alone. SHE IS ONLY 4. She supposed to be happy wherever she is in school or nursery. I would speak to her nursery teacher who know her best than the school teacher and ask her opinion.

But as I said PLEASE help your daughter immediately. Poor little girl (and you), she is more than a month in this situation. You are her mother and need to take care of her. Do you really think this is the best care for her? Sorry, I know I am hurting your feeling, but it seems to me you are still believing in this school.

Outstanding school? Do not make me laugh... From your previous post it seems to me school won't help on this situation.

I am so sad to hear stories like this. I nearly cried and I am so angry with this school.

OP, I really feel for you. My DD was 4yo in the summer and started school in Sept. She is absolutely fine when she gets into the classroom but cries most mornings and that alone breaks my heart. Luckily our school is sympathetic and helpful and she is, slowly, getting better.

Good luck. It sounds to me as if your DD is being bullied, poor thing .

Hi finmum:

Do you know what - I think you shouldn't worry about the teacher's feelings - she clearly is deeply unconcerned about your daughter's feelings.

These are your DD's first impressions of school - and it looks like they are entirely negative. Younger children should be supported and often are allowed to bring in a comforting stuffed animal/ small blanket from home or assigned a 'helper' from one of the older Class R children - to help with shoes, buttons, etc... and to be looked after during PE. Younger children often are allowed to start more gradually - only going full-time in the 2nd or 3rd term.

Bullying (chanting I'm not your friend qualifies here) should not be allowed to carry on - and certainly should be clamped down upon in Class R.

I think you should see the Head and ask 3 questions:

Is this how you wish to welcome your newest and youngest pupils to your school?

What is the school policy on settling in children into Class R?

What mitigation can the school put in place for your DDs extremely traumatic start at the school?

My advice is set up a meeting with the Head - type out any questions (so you don't forget what you wish to say - my experience is Head's waffle to get aggrieved parent off topic (apologies to Heads but sadly true).

You need to contact the LEA about the situation - because you will have to apply for next year's school place shortly - this is especially urgent if you decide to go to another school. My advice is go to some open days and see what other schools are like in your area and talk to friends/ neighbours in your catchment. You can start fresh next year - and withdraw her from what sounds like an entirely unsuitable situation.

I am appalled by the behaviour of the children around your DD and by the fact that the teacher is so wholly disengaged with the obvious distress of your DD.

It may be better to support her learning more at home, but go to a less high achieving school (which has its own frustrations) if the environment is supportive, friendly and happy - which clearly is essential for your DD's happiness. This seems particularly cruel as in many countries children do not start until the year they are turning 6.

All my best wishes to you and your DD.

It sounds awful. There was a playschool near us which was pretty much the same. Children throwing toys and charging round. Luckily there was an alternative one. I don't know the rules these days but wouldn't there be at least one classroom assistant or more than one present at all times. I think half days is the best option.

I'm so sorry to hear this. I have had a similar experince with ds's (old) school - albeit nowhere near as extreme. I moved him after two years and my only regret is waiting so long.

Your dd is very young - she doesn't even need to be at full time school yet (from a legal perpective). My advice to you would be to take her out as soon as possible if you possibly can. Even if that means home-edding for a few weeks/months.
Ring around the local schools and see which ones have places (or ask the LEA). Go and have a look. Forget about the "outstanding" rating - from what you say, it sounds "outstandingly" bad.
Your dd was happy at school before - and she can be happy at achool again.

Until you solve this situation, please give lots of hugs and kisses to your DD and let her know she is not alone and you try to help her and she can tell you everything. Probably you can speak about this situation with her and ask her opinion what she would like.

arseface (gosh what a name!) has summed it all up.

I think you need some language to use when you go the head - it sounds as though you aren't confrontational by nature.

But I'd be looking into other schools as your backup.

A reception child should not be unhappy in reception - the vast majority of children in a reception class of 30 enjoy school.

My two summer born children loved reception.

It sounds like this school is not good enough - ignore the 'outstanding' and find a school where the children are valued and the teachers enjoy them.

Thank you all so much for your kind advice and insight.

Lakeofshiningwaters, I agree with you that this is a Reception setting problem and maybe therefore I've been keeping up hope that something can be done. DD2 was a full year in pre-school and was really looking forward to go to this big school (she talked about how much she likes walking to school with her big sister).
In Finland we go to school at 7, I know there's no rush, but DD2 would herself feel bad if put back to pre-school when all her pre-school friends that she still sees regularly are in the big school. But that has to be an option if things don't change.
I'm not so stuck on that 'outstanding' label, it's just that it seems that what they are doing with DD2 at year 3 is great and she couldn't be happier at school. When she started midterm last Spring the school was amazing helping her settle in and find friends through the buddy system. Her whole class seems to get on well and as we live only 200 yards from the school I sometimes see them outside playing happily with no-one alone.
DD2's teacher has been telling me that I worry too much and DD2 will eventually settle down. Therefore I've given her some time, but this recent bullying (the teacher said chanting is not bullying but quite normal in established friendships but she did say she will talk to the class about "how we talk to others" so that gave me hope) is just too much.
I have to admit that big part of me having been careful with this is that I don't want the teacher to think we're coming to demand something the state school naturally cannot offer due the lack of resources. That's why your kind advice is invaluable, thank you!

The fact is all children are different. Some children flourish at play school and struggle in reception and the other way round and some are fine wherever they are.

Is there a TA? I would ask the TA to check with the lunchtime supervisors whether they could keep an extra eye on her, to make sure that she eats and to make sure she is okay in the lunch breaks and has somebody to play with.

Can your older daughter not take her under her wing during lunch time to help her settle a bit?

I would also try to organise some play dates so she gets to know other children in her class. You could also check whether you can volunteer for something in class (guided reading, other activities), it may reassure your younger dd and you get a better feel for what is going on. Sometimes I think that going for half days makes it worse. They miss out on fun activities in the afternoon and miss out on getting to know the other children (many schools have structured activities in the morning, and (free) play in the afternoon for this age group at this stage of the year - this will change when the year progresses with less and less free play to prepare for year 1).

It is also not true that children always settle (quickly) in reception, I know several children who took the whole year to settle and some are still not settled in year 1. It is not pleasant for all involved but with perseverance and understanding they will ultimately settle and will be okay.