School want to refer DD for speech therapy 2 days after starting reception?!

[Faith77]

I don't know whether anyone has any experience of this, but after two days at school, DD's teachers have announced that they want to put her into speech therapy. We haven't had any input into this decision, and feel that two days is pretty quick to make such a big assumption about her abilities, given that she hadn't even met her teachers prior to starting at the school (no settling in, home visits, etc) & is still getting used to her environment, which is a huge jump from the (non-State) nursery she attended previously. We've got a few other concerns about the school, too, but this is the big one - can they really do all this without any discussion or proper assessment after only 12 hours with her?! Her speech is a bit behind in terms of clarity, but over the past 2 years, we have spoken to those who cared for her at nursery regularly, and their response has always been that she is progressing rapidly, is understandable when her confidence has been gained, and that she picks up more by being around her peers than being taken off to work separately. However, the teachers haven't been open to our input and have basically told us that this is how it is going to be. We're not opposed to our daughter having speech therapy, but surely we ought to have been involved in the decision process and there should have been a proper assessment done over a certain amount of time?

Rosebud05 I know - but there's always the "what if we don't" scenario. We've been told the likelihood is that she will be offered a place, but it's not a guarantee, which means we have two choices - send her back into the school we don't like until our alternative comes up, which is likely to be this week, but is dependent on whether any more children drop out or fail to turn up (staggered entry is still ongoing at the school), or keep her at home, which might be until the end of this week or might be another week, two weeks, or more. And, if this assessment/referral is as urgent as everyone says it is, then I now need to add even more parameters into the equation.
JackJacksmummy - thank you, I think that is a good suggestion, and I shall try that tomorrow.

It seems to me you've decided u don't like the school so u r picking up on all the little teething issues and using them as an excuse not to send her.
I agree with others that the SALT referral is worth its weight in gold.
And if u r that concerned then stop fussing about juice cartons and get her a private speech therapy assessment.
I'd be more annoyed with the nursery that they hadn't picked this up, than with the school tbh.

Well, if it is a class based issue, contact the class teacher (ie water). If it is an issue to do with additional needs (ie SLT) then if you feel the issue is severe and you are not having any luck with the class teacher, call the school secretary and ask if it is possible to make an appointment to speak with the SENCO. This is usually a double hatted position, might even be your class teacher, some times it's the HT or deputy head. But someone in the school will be doing the SENCO duties. It's usual to contact the class teacher in all instances first - just common courtesy as they are the one who will know your dd best.

That said, for something that you believe to be of great import and that affects the school in a wider sense (and is not connected with your dd) then if you believe it is severe enough you should call the school and ask to make an appointment to meet with the HT.

If you constantly get fobbed off, or perceive that there are standards in contravention of safeguarding policy etc etc, then you can contact the Chair of Governors (even better, you can volunteer to be a governor at this point in the year - and will learn so much about schools and education!) or the LA as a last resort.

This is obviously the first time that someone has suggested your dd might have a additional need. It's quite common for these things to be flagged on school entry, and quite often they should have been flagged before. (private nurseries are often the worst offenders in not making necessary referrals, tbh, as they don't use the system often enough)

I don't have anything against private nurseries, btw. All three of mine went to many and varied private nurseries, but we were lucky enough to know our way around the special needs side, by that point.

It's all a learning process, for parents, too.

Salt is not a child protection issue it's nothing to be anxious about. Agree with others about taking it - the threshold is high she won't behaving it unless she really needs it!
I have seen nurseries miss some shocking developmental delays including an entire global delay syndrome quite recently. Just because they thought her speech was ok doesn't mean it is - sorry for the bluntness.

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Thank you for your support. Thankfully, being new here, I haven't got a clue what PFB means, but given it's come from someone called "Podgymumma", I think I can draw my own conclusions...
I apologise profusely, podgymumma, for not abdicating all responsibility for my child the moment she crosses the threshold of the school. I want to be involved in her education and work with her teachers, I'm just finding it impossible to do so at the moment, but, thanks to the more constructive comments here, I am now equipped with new ideas to try tomorrow. But, thank you for your oh-so-constructive, caring, and welcoming approach. Much appreciated...

Just a quick question, when was your dd 4? Because there is a big difference between a reception child who is almost 5 and one who has only just turned 4 (as was the case with my DS)
If your dd is very nearly 5 they might be wanting to pick up on her speech quicker than another reception child who has only just turned 4 if you get what I mean?

I hear the buns........

OP in what way have you broached these issues with the school?

4 at the end of July. She only started talking in short sentences about 18 months ago, and was only in nursery two days a week, so mostly she's just been around her dad and I who work around caring for her. And we understand her, so she hasn't really had the incentive to talk "properly", and is a bit lazy more than anything. We'll get her assessed, one way or the other, though, just because the idea is there now that it could possibly, maybe, be more than just laziness and lack of interaction.

Thank you to everyone who has given me helpful, useful advice - it is much appreciated.

School can be a bewildering place for a shy 4-year-old, and sometimes it can seem easier to go without things like a drink if you don't understand what's going on and are afraid to ask. I don't know why you've decided this is not the school for your DD, but be prepared for similar teething problems in your preferred choice of school.
As for the SaLT suggestion, I wouldn't interpret it as a judgment on your DD's abilities, but more a desire on the school's part to understand your DD better and assist her progress.

PFB= precious first born.

and that pudgymumma remark was bitchy.

remark about pudgymumma I should say.

Oh and just to check the bleeding obvious - has your DD had a thorough professional hearing test?

Hi Faith,

I'm sorry that I've not read the whole thread, and I see there are concerns about the access to water etc that I'm not going to touch on as it's so late and I've not much of value to add.

Re the speech therapy though, I understand you feel they've been heavy handed, and I get where you're coming from. For what it's worth, I am July born too, and swapped primary school in reception. When I swapped I also had to have speech therapy.

Fast forward 14 years and I get accepted into Cambridge! I don't even know if this is partly your concern, that there may be longer term issues with her learning, but I just wanted to share to say I appreciate your concern about the school's way of going about it, but please don't think this may in some way be detrimental to her. Really wish your DD best of luck for reception.

Yar, op. Ya lost the moral high ground with the piss-poor crack about an mn username, whether you agreed with the post or not.

Fwiw, just in case wheredid's idea bears merit and does illustrate your concern, dd2 is also gifted. Requiring SLT has no bearing on academic ability. She has an iq of 142.

Good luck with your meeting with the HT today OP. Agree with all others who say go with the SALT referral. There's an irony that the school are so good at spotting DD's possible communication issues yet they seem to be having communication issues with you! Of course, I say this with no disrespect, but we don't know their side of the story. It could be that because of your raised apprehension about this school, you may not be able to see the good the school offers?

Best wishes and I hope this gets sorted and there's no need to chop and change your daughter's school.

Speech therapy is nothing to do with a child's abilities, or lack thereof. Speech problems can occur for many reasons and are nearly always independent of IQ.

I think there is plenty of bitchiness on this thread but not from the OP. Any chance of people remembering this thread is quite rightly in 'Primary Education' and the OP is asking for advice not dissection?

My dd had similar experience when she started primary - very near to the start, her teacher told us she'd need speech therapy and advised us (no option to refer us, I had to do that myself) to get an appt straighaway.I was a bit offended, like you, as she was my PFB,but the teacher was right - because she'd largely been at home with people who knew her, we could all understand her perfectly as we were used to her (simplified and unclear) speech. But strangers who didn't know her couldn';t work out what she was saying.

She had her first appt around xmas and only needed that one - she would sit in her room saying strings of words with 'z' sounds in as she couldn't manage the letter z and two of her friends at school had names that began with it! :)

The speech therapist then signed her off.

But the school was absolutely right to suggest referral - as I was around her all the time, I would never have been aware of what she sounded like to people not used to her way of speaking.

Re the water etc - this is not a sign of a bad school, just a normal part of there being 30 kids and only a few (3?) teachers/TAs. It's hard for all kids to get the hang of rules at schoool re water, toilets etc and most kids have a few slips till they get the hang of them; this could happen at any school.

Re contacting the school with your concerns, the normal procedure at any school is to speak to the class teacher first - either wait after pick-up (after drop off she'll be busy with kids) or if she's too busy then, then make an appt for a chat with her or with the office (unless you have a direct email address to do this on). The only reason to speak to the HT is if you have already spoken to the class teacher and not got anywhere - it is extremely rude to speak to the HT ie going over the head of the class teacher without asking for their perspective on your worries first - and is unlikely to endear you to the class teacher in future.

You do seem to be letting one incidence of shouting affect your whole view of the school - shouting at reception kids is clearly not on,but that does not mean the whole school is dreadful this is a typical incident. My dd had a v shouty teacher who taught reception for a couple of years, but was complained about lots and has since left - but that does not mean the whole school was bad, just that one teacher was, and everyone in the school (incl the HT) knew about it and were doing their best to get rid of said teacher.

Finaly, just to set your mind at rest,my pfb was topp of her class academically all the way through primary and is now at grammar for secondary; she enjoyed primary lots. Having slow/unclear speech need not be a marker for anything else at all or affect their education/happiness in any way at all. Another boy who she was at primary with who needed speech therapy all through primary is no the local lothario at secondary! onto girlfriend number 6 at least after 1 year at secondary! So having unclear speech or speech therapy need not hold your dc back in any way!

Is the teacher you saw shouting at the child your DD's new teacher?

OP you seem very anxious. It may help to become involved in your DD's school to get a better understanding how the school works. Most schools have parents volunteering for a number of different things, such as library duties, reading with children, organising parties etc. You could ask her teacher whether it would be possible to come and help out on a given day/part of the day.

The fact that the school has referred her for speech therapy so quickly seems to indicate that they are really on the ball. Budgets are going to be very tight and places are limited so they want to get her into 'the system' whilst there is still money available. I consider this as hugely positive.

It is never nice when teachers shout at children and ideally they should not do that. However, teachers are human beings, and these things unfortunately happen. I don't think that there are any schools where it can be guaranteed that no teacher ever shouts. Similarly, there are plenty of shouty parents, just part of life. Clearly, if it was your dd's teacher who shouts and if it scares your dd (many kids can't care less and that is another reason why shouting is a totally inappropriate strategy to get attention) then I would raise it in first instance with her teacher and if no joy then with the headteacher.

The water/juice incidents are annoying but can be easily addressed. Lots of parents are concerned that their kids don't drink enough but it wasn't even that long ago that kids didn't even have water bottles with them. Best is to keep reminding your dd to take her water bottle with her. If you can walk inside with her, then make sure yourself that she puts the water bottle where she is supposed to put it.

Unless your dd feels really unwell, I would not keep her a whole week of school. The kids are settling in at the moment, learning all the new rules, forming friendships. It is really important for your dd to be part of this (unless she is really ill of course). So I would send her back to school asap if I were you.

Whether this school is right or not, only you can decide. However, as another poster already said no school is perfect. You don't want to keep moving your dd, it is not good for her, not good for her confidence, not good for forming friendships.

dikkertjedap, what a brilliant post

DS was offered SALT by the school nurse after less than 5 minutes of his school entry check-up! I too grabbed the opportunity for him with both hands!

This was 2 days after the head had suggested a referral to Occupational Therapy.

Both these services are under-resourced and we feel extremely lucky to have had access to them.

I agree that the communication between home/school over SEN and extra support is very vague from a parent's point of view - I say that as a teacher. If you're still at the school, wait until the parent questionnaires come out (usually with reports) and mention it in a calm and supportive tone.

Good luck

I understand you want to sort out the other issues with the school. However, as others have said, if you have been offered access to SALT grab it with both hands. We had quite a long wait to get an assessment then another long wait for the first appt.