Dare I even ask... looking around Primary Schools

[StetsonsAreCool]

Oh god, this is so embarrassing and PFB and I need a second opinion

We need to make a decision about where we live. Currently renting, will move to another rental property if we do move, as we're not quite in a position to buy yet. We live in an ok street in an otherwise not-the-best area, we wouldn't choose to buy here. Anyway, the house we live in is great. I'm worried about DD starting school here though.

The two schools in our catchment area are Satisfactory and (barely) Good according to Ofsted, so I'm not convinced about them on that basis. But I know Ofsted isn't the be all and end all, and actually they might be a really happy place for DD to spend her school week. On the other hand, the teachers might be spending too much time on crowd control to actually be able to teach.

Do I ask them if I can have a look round? Will I sound like a pillock? This isn't the sort of area where parents really support their children's education, so part of me thinks they'll be laughing at us/dreading us sending DD there, because we'll be 'those parents' who push too hard (we won't, I have teacher parents myself so they are quite welcome to get on with teaching DD in whatever way they like).

I want to like either school because I don't really want to move. But we've got to make a decision by Christmas really, because we'll have to find somewhere else to live. DD is only 2.3, but would potentially be starting pre-school class next September, and the applications have to go in early. I think before her third birthday.

I'm almost tempted not to post this and go and find a grip to get hold of instead

Of course you can go and have a look round! More than once, if you like. Any decent school will be happy to make an appointment to show prospective parents round.

And you only need to be thinking about pre-school applications before your dc is 3. Reception applications need to go in around Christmas the school year that your dc turn 4, so you've got a couple of years for that.

Absolutely no reason why you shouldn't look round, open season on that is about to start for those of us doing applications for next September! But, pre school applications are entirely separate to primary applications, and you apply for primary during the academic year that they turn 4, so never before thry turn 3

I think its a reasonable thing to think about not PFB at all!
however she won't be starting school for 2 years - and applications won't need to be in until january 2014 -
if you are thinking about the preschool at the schools then ask to look round them - people do - maybe not loads in your area but that is actually a good thing as it means they won't be fed up with people visiting - also your DD doesn't have to stay in the same school that she went to preschool
also my expereince is most primary schools are pretty good regardless of the area and compared to secondary there is less issues about crowd control etc
also in many areas actual choice of schools is quite limited as the schools are so full so it maybe you would only actually get in one school where you live

Not odd at all - especially if where you move would be partly determined by it.

I started looking at schools at the beginning of the summer. I look at it the same way as I would if it was the private sector - looking round schools is completely normal.

Just because you're not writing a cheque at the beginning of term doesn't mean that you're not paying for your child's education - you are through taxation, so you have exactly the same right to go and see what you get for your money!

Thank you! That's what I hoped. I just worry that the school will think I'm mad for wanting to look!

I know we've got a while before we need to worry about actual school. I just like to know what's coming, and school is a big thing to plan for especially when we throw moving arrangements into the mix!

Just so I know I've got my head around this, she'll be 4 in May 2014, so she'll start school in September 2014? And applications go in December 2013 ish?

It's the waiting list for pre-school I'm worried about, if we decide to go with pre-school instead of keeping her on at nursery. Round here, they can go on the waiting list after their second birthday, so if we do decide to do pre-school, she needs to be on a list soon.

she can go on a list she doesn't have to take up a place -but I would check if that is still how it works as I know our local pre-school has changed to a different system recently
yes timings correct

Entirely reasonable to ask to look around the schools.

But if you are currently in an area that you wouldn't consider buying in, does that mean that you will be planning to buy/move in a few years time? And would that mean moving schools as well? If it does you might be better off moving now, or by Jan 2014 at least, as it's much easier to get a place in Reception than later on (speaking from bitter experience...)

You're not being PFB at all!

No way would I send my DC to a school I hadn't looked round (I looked at one high school 3 times to make sure I was making the right decision)

I was in a similar position to you when DC1 was due to start school. I had friends who had happily sent their DC to the local school, and we presumed that would be where DS would go. When we looked round, the first thing I said to DH when we left was "We can move." Which we did, but not before we'd got DS into the school of our choice on the other side of town. (We's looked at 5 schools to see which one we liked best).

At least I'm not being pfb (it's my biggest phobia, along with Loud Parenting )

Robinson, that's another thing playing on my mind. At this rate, we're not going to be in a position to buy for at least 5 years - she'll be 7 then (but potential future children may be at/starting school, oh the gift that keeps on giving!) The one saving grace is that there are quite a few Infant/Junior Schools around here so the LA must be quite well prepared for children moving around.

I didn't think about how difficult it might be to actually move schools later thoguh. Only the wrench it would be for her to leave her friends.

It would be handy to be on the other side of town for me and DH travelling to work, but financially more trying. But I hadn't thought about getting her into a school over there in preparation for eventually moving. Food for thought! It would be easier for travelling to work too.

depends on your area - friend of mine moved across her town and her DCs are now in different school as not place for older one in new area -its easier once they are in KS2/juniors as usually less tight on places - distance from the school is normally the decider to whether you get in a school so may not be possible for her to go to a school in another area -

part of me thinks they'll be laughing at us/dreading us sending DD there, because we'll be 'those parents' who push too hard

I think probably they'll be delighted to have potential parents who care and are interested!

I've just done a bit of Ofstedding...

Both schools are Satisfactory, but with Good for Pupil Safety/Behaviour. So on paper, children are happy at school.

But, the other school round the corner that we're not in the catchment area for, but is technically closer is Outstanding. Hmm, another one to add to the list for scoping out. I'm as cautious of outstanding schools as I am of satisfactory ones - I don't want her to go to a SATS factory! Just want her to be happy and supported at school - I want her to enjoy school as much as I did (even with teachers for parents).

I've gone back to overthinking again but I'm not taking the paper report as gospel.

Haberdashery, that was my 'find a silver lining' back up line

I'm going to find some contact details when the schools have settled back in then and see what I can see. Thank you everyone for making me feel not like a precious parent

Yes, you should absolutely go and have a look round. We often have parents of nursery and infant age children coming round (I work in a junior school), more so since we got Outstanding from Ofsted as there is now so much more competition for the places.
The school will be more than happy for you to visit, and if they're not then that's answered your question really!

Good luck x

Schools expects parents to look round. Look round lots of schools, not just those two. Look at schools in the area you want to move to also.

I would try to get your child the best education in the nicest environment you can. He is only young. Move if necessary.

Outstanding doesn't equate to being in a sats factory. It's not just about the grades.

I wouldn't even consider a school that I hadn't looked around on a normal working day and seen the Head to ask my questions. Use the Ofsted and the SATs results as a guide only. Look around lots of schools. They expect it, if they don't want to show you around (unlikely) then cross it off the list.

Definitely go and look around. And definitely keep an open mind. My children are at a "satisfactory" school in a "rough" area and they are getting a fantastic education in a happy, safe, motivated school. The teachers are highly dedicated, behaviour is good in school (if not always on the street!) and both children are happy and progressing very well.

For goodness sake don't spend shedloads of money moving out of an area to avoid a school that might be perfectly fine. If you look around and hate both schools, then you have a reason to move.

And find out if the schools have any events you can go to- Christmas or summer fairs- for example.

Careful with ofsted doesnt always tell full picture.
look at sats results

but the most important vist the school get a feel.

I visited one of highly sought after schools in area got there dident like the head, she showed us round and we were not allowed to speak to kids or teachers as would disrupt their day.

In contrast community primary in satisfactory couldent have been more different and had best open day -my worries about this school was distance from home and size but put down as my 3rd choice.

sometimes open days can give false impression.

I rang one school about going to veiw and they were so rude on phone as had newborn at time as well dident go to veiw.
in contrast visited dds current school when sister was 3days old and had 30 exited juniors surrounding her carseat.

Dds school was appointment with the head and we were allowed to talk to teachers, kids shown every room.
its was small 45intake , faith based and a primary so ticked lot of boxes and dd went to preschool next year and most moved onto the school so she already knew loads people made transition lot easier.

My middle child currently goes nursery but dont think any of freinds she made there will be going to same school sadly.

I have 2youngers ones due to start 2014 and 2015 then I be free woman!

im obviously putting down eldest school but looking at 3other schools.

not sure if we move by then .

we rental and sometimes its great if need to move for schools.
however dont listen to agents when they say catagorically but this house get this school.

even sibling can work on distance as know of 2siblings split.

plus schools change over the years.

I plan to look around about leat 10 at secondry.

I think ot until you look around a few that can make a comparisions and work out what you like and wants.

Im firm believer in school suiting childs talents and personality.

any schools that reluctant to let you veiw-be weary of.

I knew I wanted small, primary-so no stress of moiving with faith or villagy feel that waset too far away with reasonable sats and ofsted-dont want much do I.

Beacuse theres so many schools we have no catchment or area pf primary responsability so could apply up to 10primaries as we outer suberbs lots near me commute to nearby village schools something may have considered if had 2cars.

good luck.

Thanks for more replies. I totally agree that Ofsted reports can only tell you so much, which is why I really want to see these schools. I really want them to be nice, because deep down it doesn't matter what sort of area the school is in as long as everyone is working together and the environment is happy.

I don't feel funny about asking to see them now though so that's good!

I know this too well as my parents taught/teach in very socially deprived areas but have really happy schools. I just want to find that here too.

Am reading on crap phone at work, so will re-read properly when I get home.

Yes it's fine to look round schools at any time - but remember that schools can change a lot in 2 years (especially if the Head-teacher changes).
You can go ahead and apply for pre-schools now though as the pre-school (or nursery school) attended does not relate to primary school admissions. Applying for pre-school is a totally separate process. Even if a school has a nursery class that does not guarantee a place at the primary school. For pre-school/nursery school you apply directly to the pre-school/nursery for primary schools you apply via the LEA.

Honestly, I don't think Ofsted categories tell you that much. If you think your child is bright or not very bright, ask the school about how they deal with differentiation etc. If you think your child is average, ask the school how they stretch their middle ability kids. If sporty, ask about sports facilities. Etc etc. All you really need at primary level is a school which will teach your child the basics well, and give them the chance to do the stuff that will make them feel that school is a happy place and learning is fun.

I chose a satisfactory school, based on my gut feeling (happy, harmonious feeling when I looked round, classical music playing in lots of classrooms and this is not a posh school or a particularly middle class intake, engaging kids who were happy to talk to me and talk about the school when I looked round, nice teachers who were happy to take the time to talk about how they approach things, etc). We were also within v reasonable distances from a good school and an outstanding school, but I just didn't think they'd suit my child as well. The outstanding school felt a bit pressured and factory-like (and I thought the head was a bit odd) and the good school just didn't seem to be a place where I could see my daughter being happy as it was much larger and busier and she's very shy and quiet.

DD is absolutely THRIVING. She is happy. She is confident. She is achieving above and beyond what would be expected of her at her age. She has loads of friends. She also loves school and skips in every morning. Some of her little mates from preschool went elsewhere to higher-rated schools and were nowhere near as happy - a couple of them swapped schools after only a term or two.

I think the only thing that matters is if you can see your child being happy there, and that depends on the fit between your child and the school, not on the Ofsted report.

Up to a point, haberdashery. I would not ignore an OFSTED report that was concerned about the quality of the teaching or children's behaviour. Or which said that the kids don't make at least satisfactory progress. But apart from that- your post sums things up perfectly!

Yes, agree about serious concerns with behaviour/teaching or children not achieving what they should be. But I would still go and see for myself, I think.

You are absolutely not being PFB, your childrens education is important.

My experience of choosing schools, DS1 is now in Yr 1 at the local village school. I looked at the results for each school nearby and read the Ofsted reports. I focused on the categories that I thought were important, so teaching, leadership & management etc and then arranged visits to those I liked. I would be wary of a school that didn't want you to visit.

At the school he is in, the Headmistress met with me for an hour, she talked about the school, we looked round the school and all the classrooms and then had a wrap up session. As the visit progressed I wanted him more and more to go to this school, its hard to explain why, just a gut feeling but based on the children were doing things and actively learning, it was quiet but humming with activity, good discipline, the Headmistress knew all the childrens names and asked a couple about what they were doing. In doing so, showed that she knew what they had been doing in and school and outside of it etc.

In the end I only visited this school, it has very good results and I wanted him to have friends in the village. In retrospect they also had a very good induction process, home visits, visits at nursery, two weeks starting in the afternoon and building up to including lunchtimes, parents evenings before starting so that parents knew what to expect. There is care, thought and planning in everything they do. DS has settled in really well.