Reading question - swapping letters

[noramum]

My DD just finished Reception and we are doing the Summer Reading Challenge.

We already noticed that she would swap the starting letter of the word. So instead of "For" she would say "Ofr" or "No" and "On" etc. Sometimes, she will even start the word with the third or fourth letter in the word. We normally ask her "Look again, what is the first letter" and she will correct herself.

We mentioned it a couple of times in the reading diary but the TA/teacher just signed it off. The only comment was during the Spring term that it was a normal development. But we think it gets actually worse, not better. We didn't have a parent evening in the Summer term but there was nothing in her school report, only that she should concentrate on the high frequency words and the ones you just can't pronounce phonetically.

So, is this a normal process for a girl of just 5?

Nora - lots of teachers, and headteachers, aren't very good at teaching children to read.

That is why we have so many children leaving school illiterate.

Cecily - oh, you mean she pronounced 'Chile' to rhyme with 'while'.

That would be a valid phonetic pronunciation, and would therefore be fine :)

(In that case I'm not sure how that anecdote is relevant to the thread :) )

Indigo: that may be, I don't doubt it. But I don't see DD's school as one of those. More the opposite, they are very focused in getting children to read as they see reading as the key to successful learning.

Yes, DD finds it easier to have a go at writing in Czech because she seems to have realised that there are fewer choices to be made. So she'll happily write a story of a few sentences in Czech off her own bat, whereas in English (her home language) she sticks to writing a few words.

Both Chile and chandelier are both foreign words so not good examples anyway

Nora - if your child learns to read, it's very easy to think your school is good at teaching children to read.

But what do the stats say? Do 100% of children leave Y6 with at least a level 4 in reading?

Yes I did mean she pronounced "chile" to rhyme with while which is a much better way of explaining it! I do get that there are different sounds for different letters but the way my DDs have been taught is the main sound and any exceptions are red words. As they progress and learn more sounds, eg augh then the number of red words decrease as they have more sound options to choose from. I don't think it is helpful to give 5 and 6 year olds options for each letter sound. Pretty hard to have this conversation about sounds and phonetics without actually speaking!

And yes both examples are foreign words but English is full of foreign words. Are these excepted from phonetics then or are options also given. Eg ballet ?

Eat vs head
Sausages, ages
Potato, tomato

There are loads of examples.

I don't think it is helpful to give 5 and 6 year olds options for each letter sound.

Unfortunately the English spelling system involves alternative spellings for sounds and alternative sounds for spellings which means that if children (and adults) learn to read effectively they either need to be taught the "options" or work them out for themselves.

Noramum
Anyone with knowledge of other languages can easily see that the irregularities of English spelling make learning to read and and write English is exceptionally difficult. But some native speakers of English seem to find this very difficult to understand. They seem very confused about it.

While on the one hand they often state that teaching children to read needs special training and takes a lot of patient perseverance and a great deal of time, they also claim that, if done properly, it is easy and every child can do it equally well.

Mercifully, most teachers are more like the HT of your dd's school, than Maizie or Mrz.

I think you are the one who is confused masha as evidenced by your lists

Mercifully, most teachers are more like the HT of your dd's school, than Maizie or Mrz.

Unfortunately that is why 20% of children leave schools struggling with basic literacy.

Masha, do you have any actual experience teaching in a school to young children?
I can say as fact that the school my sons go to up until the last academic year taught first a whole word recognition system, gradually replaced by a mixed method over the last few years.
Then a year ago they switched to teaching phonics right through the school (including juniors).
The staff were passionate about the change, made sure they implemented phonics teaching well and thoroughly, and the difference in reading level has been exceptional.
Every year the school does a standardised reading test. Previously very low numbers of children were reaching the '90' needed to pass the test (100 being average). At the end of this academic year the number reaching 90 had improved significantly across all year groups. e.g. if 50% of a year had passed, this became nearer 70%. Way passing all expections and targets set by the school.

Between my own 2 children I can see a massive difference between DS1 and 2s spelling levels, although in fairness DS1 this year has gone from spelling being 2 years behind to a few months behind. Presumably as he has now been systematically taught phonics. 'Unfortunately' DS2 who is only in reception is still better at working out the sounds in a word and finding a plausible spelling than DS1 (yr5). Over the year DS2 has become increasingly aware which plausible spelling would be the correct choice.

Personally I would be 100% having Mrz or Maisie teach my children, than a HT who is not sure that phonics works.

Oops meant to also say, OP DS2 used to swap letters around when he first started reading, particularly saw/was and on/no. I used to ask him 'which way do we read?' and he would correct himself. He doesn't do it now (end of reception but reading with year1s).

It isn't unusual for beginner readers to swap letters around which is why it is important that they learn to blend through the word and as maizie said using a cursor card is a big help at reinforcing this as you reveal the word sound by sound so they can't start in the middle or end.

If your child reads "no" as "on" just pause and ask them to look at the first letter ... "does "on" begin with ?"

And yes both examples are foreign words but English is full of foreign words. Are these excepted from phonetics then or are options also given. Eg ballet ?
NO they aren't excepted from phonics however they aren't good examples because they follow the letter/sound system from the language they originally derived from.

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103889839&ft=1&f=1013

To what does she attribute her success? She reads a lot books and watches a lot of American television! Oh, and, she says, "It's all about learning the roots and the etymology, such as Greek and Latin, and the rest is about luck."

Some would argue that the spelling of other languages is so regular that you don't even have to be a 'prodigy' to be able to spell well.

Except the child in question spoke Spanish and was spelling English words easily Cecily

But often those languages swap spelling lessons for endless complex grammar lessons.... Which we don't need in English.

Except the child in question spoke Spanish and was spelling English words easily Cecily

Which makes her even more of a prodigy, wouldn't you say mrz?

I agree, Indigo, that it is swings and roundabouts.

No I wouldn't say it makes the child a prodigy

No, neither would I, but the article did.

Perhaps there are other factors neither of us know about

Children's ealy attempts at spelling, such as 'sed, frend, hoo' show that they would learn to spell English far more easily if those words obeyed the main patterns for those sounds.

And the grammars of other languages present no greater difficulties to native speakers, or learners immersed in those languages, than English grammar does for English children.

Of course it would be easier/quicker to learn but that is very different to your claims about the English orthographical system masha ...