Katerina's school nightmare: advice needed, I'm desperate! :(

[Katerina384]

A few days ago I posted about having no school places for my DDs in September. We moved to the area a few months ago ( an oversubscribed area) and originally were offered no school places at all. I also can't find a nursery place for DS, but as I work from home and will soon be on maternity leave I'm not so worried about that for now.

I finally had an email from the LEA today. DD1 has been offered a place in year 3 at a school approx. 4 miles away, and DD2 a place in year 2 at a school 7 miles away in a different direction :( I will be given free transport to school on public buses for both DDs.

The issue here is how I'm going to be able to get both of them to school. I don't drive, so we will have to use public transport. I was speaking to a neighbour of mine whose DC was also offered a place at the school 7 miles away, she and her DC tried the route on public transport and it took them almost 2 hours I can't afford to put one DD into before and after school care to pick up the other as it is, but if it's a 4 hour round trip just to get DD2 to school then it's going to be impossible to get DD1 to school too. I would have to take one DD with me to drop the first one off too IYSWIM, as well as a 4 year old if no nursery place comes up soon and will be heavily pregnant/with a newborn. Surely this is never going to work?

The schools the DDs have been offered places at are both in speical measures and have horrible reputations, but at this moment in time I just want to get them in somewhere, I'll worry about trying to come up with something better later!

I know if I turn down one or more of the places then the LEA have no obligation to find me another one, but I just don't see how we could possibly make this work.

Advice greatly needed!
Katerina

babyrabbits I get your point, but at the same time we couldn't possibly have sorted out places before we moved because we didn't have an address. This move was something we had wanted to do for a long time, we knew getting into schools might be an issue and that was a decision we had to make. I accept that. I imagined that we wouldn't get our choice of school and we would have to take whatever was left, however, I did not in the slightest expect to be offered one school 4 miles away and one 7 miles away and no help for getting both DDs to school on time, no nothing.

Originally going private was an option when I was still with DH, however, this was dependent on his work contributing to the cost, and now he has gone back and I am a single parent this is completely out of the question financially.

Edith thank you, I will raise that with them when I call on Monday.

Tiggytape both please :) I'm completely new to all this! I'm planning on appealing for both to attend the RC school attached to ou church, I know I have very little chance of success with DD2 for year 2 but I feel I may as well try IYSWIM.

babyrabbits I'm not outraged by it, I do understand that the LEA can't magic up places. I'm just trying to do whatever I can to get my DCs into school so they can achieve to the best of their abilities, isn't that what any parent would do?

Can you not send the eldest in a cab while you take the youngest, that's what I have had to do. In the meantime I have learnt to drive. Didn't want to, but have had to to make my school run.

I would send DD1 in a cab, the issue is there's no way I could afford it. I was hoping the free transport the LEA offered me would be a taxi but apparently they only offer free bus travel for the DC in this area- I will be disputing this when I phone them on Monday

I want to learn to drive and have looked into it, but I can't afford a) lessons, cost of theory and practical tests etc and b) a car at the moment, I am stretched to the limits financially. So although the most practical solution, it's just not possible sadly :(

Have you bought the place you live in or are you renting? If you're renting I would move quite honestly. Tricky if it's council or HA though.

Once your nursery child goes to your nearest school you will jump up the list for the others though wouldn't you?

How many hours do you work as well? When I was a single parent I had more money than I do now through tax credits. But you need to work the right number of days a week, for me that was two otherwise I would earn over the housing benefit limit. Its very complicated.

What I don't get is how council can not have realised these bulges in school places were coming - they know how many births are being registered in their areas 4-5 years before the school places need to be provided. Of course in many areas immigration or movement inwards from other parts of the UK adds to that but they have data to show the history of those trends as well, plus the media have been reporting the bulge as coming for a while. I am guessing they knew it was coming but just don't have the resources to expand schools. And I suppose planning problems can come along e.g. local residents can object to new building on existing school sites as well. But it seems strange to me that this is such a huge problem all over the place - anyone know why???

Kilmer, it's expected that all children will be accommodated at their closest school in many countries. From overseas, the lengths many of you have to go to in order to secure a primary school place are just unbelievable. In fact, the whole system appears to be inexplicably difficult. We've moved around a fair bit and only the UK finds it so hard to provide school places.

OP hopefully you'll get some good advice here. Best of luck.

I'm working 25 hours a week from home, will be going on maternity leave soon though.

Im so sorry to hear about this and actually cannot believe the problems people in England have with schools. In Scotland the school is in the middle of a catchment and your kid goes to that school if they live in the boundary and thats it. Ive never even heard of a primary school being full in Scotland, They just make an extra class. How can there not be enough spaces at a school, I just don't understand, you get a mobile classroom and hire extra teachers.

I don't think Scotland quite has the extra immigration plus the baby boom plus the forcing out of people from central London to the outskirts by the benefit changes that we are experiencing in London. It's a perfect storm for public services tbh and not altogether the councils fault.

Saying that I wouldn't move into an area that was one of the worst for over subscription if I was coming back from abroad and had a choice where to live.

I have no words of advise but have read thread you have my sympathies! We have over subscribed schools in my area but no poor schools. Made me realise how lucky I am. Good luck with the appeal

Thank you so much Tiggytape

OK, so besides the transport issue, many of DD1's new friends from Church attend the RC school so this would help with settling in etc. She is also a keen singer and the school has a choir which works alongside the main Church choir- could I use this? I also know one of the teachers from the junior department from the Church and know she has a degree in DD1's first language, so could I argue this would make the school well equipped to help her with the transition, given DD1 doesn't have much English at the moment?

Sorry, so many questions!

Our previous church are sending over proof of our attendence, I'm hoping we'll move up the waiting list considerably once I hand this over to the LEA.

In the meantime, should I turn down the places the DDs have been offered or hold onto them?

Hold onto the places, and yes, all the things you have mentioned about the RC school would be good to put in the appeal for the Y3 DC.

Think you need to face reality here and so do the LA. You have moved into the area and have two children who have to go to school. As far as I am concerned and I am sure that many who sit on appeal panels will agree with me, when you move into an area it is for the LA to find a school that both your children can go to. That is there responsibility. To give them places in different schools and in different directions at such distances is just insulting to you and also in no way as far as I am concerned a "reasonable" decision. I think it would be best to accept the places so that you do have some school for the future.
So to me you need to decide which of the two schools offered is the more appealing (and I accept neither are very appealing being so far away.) I would accept that place and then ask for a place for the other sibling in that school, be rejected and then go to appeal. I think there is some chance that an appeal panel will say that the LA is being unreasonable in the way they have allocated the school places and not given a place at the same school. It would be better if the school accepted was for the sibling in year 2 as this would mean that the year 3 sibling appeal will not be subject to the Infant Class Size Regs and just give more leeway for the panel to decide to admit.
You making a decision as to the school is you being realistic which is also going to be in you favour.
As well as doing that I would also appeal for the RC school for both siblings but you do need to be realistic that your chances of success are low. That is especially true of the year 2 sibling if ICS regs are relevant. It is quit likely that you could end up winning an appeal for one sibling and not the other, so you need to think about that a bit.
The appeals for the two schools are completely separate and there should be no mention of the RC school appeals by yourself so that the panel is not given information it does not need to know.

For the year 2 place you might also argue that they should have used the Fair access protocol instead of placing her 2hrs away and thus are unreasonable not only in placing her that far away without suitable transport, but also when a mechanism exists for finding a nearer school.

I just don't see how a school 2 hrs away will ever work tbh. What will happen if she is sick at 10.30am, by the time they contact you she will then need to wait at school for over 2hrs and have a 2hr bus journey (assuming they run in the day) home. I agree that usually you should accept, but I don't see how you can, even without the school an hour in the other direction.

Also although you need to challenge them re taxis you maybe don't want to throw all your efforts into that as if they give you a taxi for dd2 then you will have little chance of wining your appeal with the other schools as that is the only reason why a school nearer will accept her this year. It does depend though how much you want her at a school, any school.

I guess the other question is how undersubscribed is the school 7 miles away. If you have been offered the last place that is one thing, but if there are 6 places then you might be more confident that if you change your mind in 6 months that they will squeeze you in.

On a different note you could ask the church whether they know anyone who could help with transport to schools as well as helping with English lessons. The choir example is a good one which clearly links with the school. Also if they haave a rainbows/brownies group put their names down saying you want them to have the opportunity to fully partake in the church community, which will be denied if they are so far from home. This might be more of a sway if the appeal panel are from the school not the LEA. Those 4 hours are all hours that they could be using to improve their English not sit on a bus.

I'd agree with writing to the school to support your application, lay it on as thick as possible - none of this stiff upper lip, this is a disaster, we are not going to be able to cope, I have 4 children in a new area, father has deserted us to his home country, I need my children to have a local support network etc. We got a place in a RC school, despite us not being RC - and I do believe a certain amount of christian charity came into it, taking pity on our situation.

Whilst not as dire as your circumstance, when I moved into an oversubscribed school area, we were offered places in 2 different schools, approx 2.5 miles apart. There was no way possible to get my children to these different schools offered by the LEA, so I chose to home school my middle child whilst waiting for a place.

We appealed (and lost) for the closest school, where my eldest had accepted a place. Something we used in our appeal (which may help you) is what time the school will accept responsibility for the child - ours will only take older children 10mins before school and younger children need parental supervision until the bell.

So there was NO PHYSICAL way to wait with eldest until 10mins before school then cover the 2.5miles to the other offered school (with toddler in tow). She would have been late (and rushed) every, single, day.

If your child's school offers children can be left ?15mins before classes start, then that only gives you that time to get the 7 miles to second school - which isn't possible... and will affect attendance records (which they are VERY strict on). She could be over an hour late every day.

Best of luck, in my country (as in Scotland) they are obliged to put children into the local school and if it means more classrooms/teachers then so be it. If another school has more places, they can ask you to attend there, but if you want the local school they have to take you.

The LA might not have even approached the RC school.

Make an appointment with the head teacher and discuss your dc going there. Sometimes things happen that are not strictly within the rules. I'm not saying it will, just that it might.

OK things to discuss with the HT.

1. Your children are practising Catholics, they have been baptised and have recently moved from an RC country, you want them to continue to be in an RC enviroment.

2. Your dcs' father has just left, this is upsetting, as is the move from another country - they need to be in the nurturing enviroment of the RC school.

3. First communiun - how can your dc have prep for their first communion if they are not in an RC school?

4. the problems with delivering children to different schools.

I'm not an expert on admissions or appeals - there are others here who are - but having the HT 'onside' is going to do no harm. Even if you do not get places then you can be on the waiting list.

I believe all schools are suposed to have spaces for shildren moving into the area, someone will correct me on this if I'm wrong.

Good luck with getting them all in the same school