Parents with children in private primary - is it really worth it?

[Blossom8]

I'm interested in finding out whether those parents who have a child/children at a pre-prep/private primary school find it worth the money over state school and how you arrived at your thinking. Are they academically better, discipline, pastoral care etc ...?

We live in London and with the talk of bulging class sizes, lack of school places etc, we are thinking whether it is worth the money paying for a good private prep school.

Blossom8 - I am relatively new on here and I'm sure you will get a stream of more experianced answers on here, with views for and against private schools. You only need to look at the Guardian thread.
We recently enrolled our oldest DS into a local private prep school, it would never have occured to us before but we were allocated a school that was a good distance away and due to various large numbers of siblings were were unable to get into our local primary's. We went and visited and were swayed by the beautiful surroundings, small class sizes, well behaved kids and super teachers. We own our own business, only a year old and were banking on it growing so we could send both son's there. However this never sat well with me and all my friends were being offered places at great local primary's. We pulled the place last week and are now on a waiting list (1st/2nd) for the local schools. I did not want to risk pulling DS out when he had made friends if things didnt work out, and to be honest I believe he will be just as better off in the good primary school.
However my SIL lives in London and send her two girls to a private school as like you the other options werent options.
It boils down to this for me. I feel that if you have enough money to comfortably afford it, and you want to go down this route, go for it, we probably would. But if you are going to have to struggle and have money worries,it's just not worth it. I think that my DS would rather go to the state primary with his friends and have a holiday once a year and a happy home life.

Blossom8 there are good and bad private schools, just like state schools. My daughter struggled with Math. With a difficult set of classmates and time and resources limited her state school were unable to address this. At the opposite end of the scale she is gifted in English (literacy) but they were also unable to do anything to embrace this.

Private school was the right thing for us. We get what we pay for. She is much happier, now at a good level in Math, she gets to go sledging and throw snowballs in the winter which was not allowed at her primary. She gets to play a huge range of sports including horse riding at private school. She goes canoeing, rock climbing. They have taught her everyone is great at something and when they find it they encourage it with everything they have. They do hands on science experiments, they have longer playtimes, great facilities and the pastoral care puts her old state school to shame. They have longer holidays. There are 12 in her class, she reads to her teacher daily there is no longer the feeling of being part of "crowd control" in the classroom.

On the negative side there are many extra costs such as uniform. At our school they have a whole wardrobe of clothes and shoes and yes, to many Mumsnetters on th other thread's horror, a STRAW BOATER!!! (prepare for people to feel sorry for your child and recoil in horror at the sight of a child in a blazer!)

It is A LOT of money and if we had a state school that provided good education and care she would go there. We have also made provision that we can afford it for the whole time she is there. Fees go up every year. They are very strict at the school and they work them hard with high expectations. They are ruthlessly honest about your child's ability with you.

Some of your friends may disagree with your choice for whatever reason and will believe they are allowed to belittle it but you will NEVER be allowed to criticise state schools!

Look at some schools, state and primary, with your child and see where she looks comfortable. I don't believe private ALWAYS means better for every child.

Poodlepower - I very much agree, it's those extra activities, holidays and small classes, all in many peoples eyes worth paying for. Luckilly we do have some great primary schools in coastal West Sussex, so we are very lucky indeed. It's a very difficult decision to make and I think the hardest one ever! Yes people are very, very quick to critisise private schools, and it has gone the other way that there is often a stigma to sending them there, however as long as these parents are not being negative about state primary's then I believe it is up to the parent where they send their child.
There is a real mix of families who send their kids to the privates around here and I have met some of them, most really down to earth hard working mums and dads and yes some who clearly are very well off. I have also seen one state primary with a very dare i say 'yummy' set of mums.
I think possibly to the recession this had led to a mix of families in both sets of schools and I think it is very hard these days to say that one is 'better' over the other, it just depends on how the schools feel, and of course one is a free place that you have the right to.

What do I pay for?

1. Multiple Languages DD has just finished year 3 and has had 3 years of French, 3 years of mandarin and 1 year of Spanish.
2. Easier as working single mum to manage longer school day and longer holidays than shorter school days and shorter holidays.
3. All the things like dance, drama, music, climbing etc happen at school so I don't need to ferry her other places after school again very difficult with the business I run.

For us it was a mixture of reasons leading to our final decisiont to go private. While the local school was very nice and had decent results, the fact that their intake class was being increased to 45 a year shocked us so our private school with 13 in DD's class is lovely. We were also impressed by the variety of academic and extracurricular activities available. It was also ranked in the Sunday Time's top 50 primary schools nationally.

As working parents we appreciated the wrap around care (8am-6pm) and also loved the family focused nature of the school. And we liked that one of their goals is to turn out children with quiet confidence.

Lastly we liked that by the end of their first year (they start at 3) they were all either full reading, or very close to that point. Had we gone with the state system they wouldn't start until after their 4th birthday and be essentially a year behind.

ditto Lizcat, plus a prep school in a grammar school area will enhance DCs' chances of getting a grammar school place.

Sorry, previous post a mess - Iphones!!!

DD was at an outstanding state school, but we had concerns in reception over behaviour in the class. We held off worrying thinking things woudl be better in Yr1. At the start of Yr1 we were told her reading was behind what was expected and she was distracted and couldn't concentrate in class. Our first worry was that there may be learning difficulties.

Yr1 was slightly better, but despite her flying through the reading programme (there was no reason she hadn't learnt to read), the class teacher was giving her books she had previously read with the specialist reading teacher.

There were no spellings each week,, no handwriting practice (her r's were as tall as her t's). The pupils were listened to read once a week, when their book was changed.

At the end of Yr 1, we felt there was no difference in her start position - apart from the reading - so we moved her to an Independent.

The difference is astounding, having been state educated myself, I had no idea at how much more the children have access to.

The class sizes are smaller no longer 30, but instead 17, although this will increase to 20 in Yr3. There is a lot of structure to their learning, the spellings will coincide with what they are doing in their literacy and phonic work. Maths is taught every morning, first thing, when the children are 'fresh', they even did extra work with dd, 20 mins a day just before lunchtime 1-1, to get her up to the level of the others.

No longer is PE done in the hall once a week, being a 'baked bean' or a 'jelly bean' etc., but she has learnt the basics of hockey, tennis and football. They have a specialist teacher and throughout the summer have been doing athletics. They swim once a week in the school pool.

There is a specialist music teacher and in Yr3, everychild will learn an instrument, some do prior to Yr3, but dd will start guitar in September. There is a huge IT suite, where they have a computer each - not sharing one between two or three as before, they build robots and programme them. Their specialist science teacher has had them building circuits and doing experiments - we have found dd has a passion for science.

Each term they go on a visit somewhere - not once a year to the local zoo, but museums, art gallerys and factorys. Confidence, achievement and doing the best you can is celebrated and applauded. Previously dd had no reason to work hard because it made no difference, even on sports day no one who won (not dd she isn't great at running and stuff) was praised, because it was all about the taking part, not winning, but at the new school everyone who was placed got a medal, the others got stickers, but what was fantastic, was seeing everyone being encouraged to take part and do their best.

There is homework everynight - just 10 minutes or so, but that gives me an idea of how she is coping and where I need to help her. The teachers are honest in what they say, which I really like, the other parents are so varied and there are more diverse range of children than she ever met at her state.

The best thing is my demotivated, switched off child has blossomed into a confident, proud, tenacious child - more like what she was like at 4, prior to starting school and that is just in one school year.

I am sure a good state school would also give all this, but unfortunately not in our area, I could never believe there could be so much difference and constantly wonder what she would be like now, if she had been there from Reception.

It is a hard decision to make and you just don't know until your child starts school how they are going to be, but for us, I wish we had done it sooner.

Both our DSs go to a private prep and have since reception. We live in an area where everyone moves house or fakes religion, or both, to access the outstanding state schools ( I'm talking about good friends here, this is all definitelly true). Also a lot of people start off state and then shift across as late as they feel they can leave it ( be that 7, 8, 11 etc) and still get in. As a result I have a wide selection of friends who have experience of both. DH and I were both state educated at primary level.

We think that private is good because of

1. small class sizes - both in terms of social development & education
2. code of behaviour
3. cosy family atmosphere ( linked to 1)
4. we had not bought a house when we had to commit so figured we could choose our school and maintain flexibility !

I am less than convinced that the academic education is much different at this early stage, but would nevertheless not send our 2 to a state school with large classes, more kids with behaviour problems, etc regardless, if i have a choice. The boys have several class mates who switched to private after 1/2/3 years in state and whose parents breathed a sigh of relief when they did; it's worth poitning out they all settled really well so don't feel you are committed to life in the state sector if it doesn't suit.

As a working mum I feel less bothered by the 'yummy mummy' elements of prep school life, but this is a real plus for some but seems much the same at the local state schools from what I can tell.

I would decide based on your child, and your own impression of the choices on offer. . I enjoyed my own state primary ( complete with 36 in a class!) but loved my private/grammar senior school on an entirely different level

People list what they see as benefits and lots of posters say that their state school offers that. I have no doubt they do but my comparison is the school DD was offered v the school she is at.

For me (DD just finished yr 1)

1. Class size 16 with a teacher and full time TA plus specialist language, dance, pe teachers. My main reason - DD has a physical disability and qualified for no LA help - in a small class she gets assistance. State had a class of 30.

2.Catholic. I wanted DD to attend a catholic school and didn't get a state catholic place.

1. Not restricted to national curriculum. DD's school approaches grammar, spelling, times tables in a more traditional way.

4.Onsite 8-6 childcare if you wish and no notice required - stuck in a meeting no problem they will keep her. State had no before/aftercare. Plus onsite holiday care run by the school. State did not offer this.

1. Near my/dh's work. This is such a benefit. I work the same hours as DD is at school, if she was in state near home i'd lose 5 hours pay a week due to commute. We can pop out to see her play/assembly easily.

1. Prep for selective at 11+ - all yr 6 leavers passed for selective schools this time. We are near two grammar catchments.

7.Racially mixed. State schools in my town are mainly all white or all asian.

1. Geared up to working parents/you are the customer. Meetings are at sensible times, plenty of notice re events.

1. Caring and family atmosphere. Small school everyone knows DD.

10. Non selective but high academic standards. I am very pleased with DD's progress and don't feel need to do extra work/tutoring over and above homework/reading.

I think whether it is worth the money is largely dependent on your income and the actual school choices that you have in front of you. It probably isn't worth it if you can barely afford it, but it probably is worth it if you are relatively money rich and time poor and you find an excellent private school which offers all sorts of exciting extras which you would like your child to have open to them but which you wouldn't have time to organise yourself. If you are money rich and time rich, then it might not be worth it, it depends on the schools in question and how much you enjoy doing with and organising for your child yourself.

I think that its mistake to catorgerise all state or all private schools together. There are some fab state schools, fab private schools and some private schools which are every bit as duff as the worse state schools.

I think this thread shows that some people have different ideas about what is a good education. Personally I do not think that nursery is the time to start formal education. I think its better to concentrate on developing good language skills and social skills and learn through play. I would be horrified if my three year old came home with a reading book. However some children might love formal education at three.

My son's state school has wrap around care and an amazing array of clubs that many private schools could not match. He has caring teachers who are passionate about what they do. Educationally my son has finished year 5 working at level 5 in most subjects. I feel the national curriculum does stiffle the more able child in key stage 2 at times, however keystage 1 and the foundation stage are incredibly demanding. However I am glad that my son is not in a selective enviroment and most his classmates live locally.

We are all influenced by our own experience. I went to a private secondary school and I had a fanastic education, but the pastoral care was non existant. It is pychologically very stressful for the child to sent to a private school which the parents cannot afford. My parents half killed themselves financially and they were incredibly disappointed in my academic results. (Ie. 4As 6Bs at GCSE including maths taken a year early and at A-level BBD) Unfortunately my parents could not buy intelligence for their children.

Please don't expect your children to be eternally grateful for the sacrifices you make to send them to private school. Also please don't think that you have wasted your money if your child does not get straight As inspite of doing their best.

Rabbitstew - it seems to me, that you are insinuating that those who send their children private have little time for their children and are unable to organise!

I feel quite offended at your post!

For us, private education isn't an option. We simply do not have the £8000 per child per year it would cost at our only local private school. Had it been a viable option, of course I would have considered it - I don't have a reverse snobbery to private education. As parents, we make the what we feel are the best decisions for our children/families/circumstances. If that includes private education, because the parents feel it is the best option for their children, then who am I to argue?

That said, I feel DD is in a fantastic state primary. She is in our local village school - it has 55 pupils on roll, class size in infants is approx 16 and in juniors is no more than 24 (PAN is 8 and the school is divided into 3 classes). There is a full-time teacher and TA to each class, external PE coaches (for PE, enrichment and the after-school clubs), external music teacher and many after-school activities ran on a termly basis. The wrap-around care isn't as good as it would be in a large state or private school, it would simply cost too much to run. I guess that is where private school can excel - because they are less constrained by tight budgets. For us wrap-around care is unimportant - we have family nearby to help and, at present, I am a SAHM.

DD has just finished reception and is thriving, both academically and socially, and she is being streamed into the next class with Yr2 and 3 - something that small schools can do with ease.

Our school feeds into the local secondary which, results wise, is one of the best in the county. There are close links between the schools and there are many small local village schools that feed into the same secondary.

I completely agree with PP who say that private schools aren't necessarily better than state schools - there are good and bad private and state schools and it would be wrong to assume that, because you have paid for it, private education is bound to be better...

paddlinglikehell I don't think anyone has suggested that parents who send their children to private school have little time for their children. However it usually takes two working parents to stump up the fees. Even the best of parents find it hard to ferry their kids round to a range of activities and work full time.

If both parents work 40 hours a week in demanding jobs then private school has a lot to offer their family. If private school makes your life easier and you can afford it without bursting a gut then go for it.

I suppose the parents who cause annoyance are those martyr parents who sarcifice EVERYTHING for their child to attend a particular school and believe that they are better parents for doing so. One of my husband's friends family goes on about how awful my son's school is even those his kids have ever gone there. Or those who think state schools aren't good enough for their precious cherbub, but perfectly acceptable for the unwashed masses.

I wasn't insinuating anything, paddlinglikehell, just setting out my viewpoint. If I were less time rich, I would be far more interested in private education than I am now. As I am relatively time rich, I do not find the extra music, sport, language tuition, swimming lessons, trips to museums etc, which many private schools offer and fewer state schools offer, of particular interest - I'd rather organise those myself than rely on one provider for everything (and as it happens, quite a lot of it can be organised through providers who come into my children's state school, and French is taught by a specialist teacher to all children at the school, but some can't). However, if I worked full time, I would find it unbelievably stressful to do everything I currently do with my children outside of school, particularly since I do not have any family living nearby to help out. It's a fact of life - however organised I am, the more work I do away from home, the less time I have to do things with my children, the more organised I have to be to fit in the trips and extras and the harder it is to fit in everything I want to do and experience with my children. Maybe your reaction is somewhat offensive to people who have deliberately chosen to earn less so that they have more time to spend with their children?...

There is always a huge debate on mumsnet around this, and really it comes down to two things:
If you can afford it, and have an independent school which you feel would be a good environment for your child then yes it's a good option.

If you can't afford it, or the local independent schools are not right for your individual child then it's not great.

In terms of are they better about discipline etc. they vary. In general they tend to have higher discipline standards because they are able to expel children who 'break' the rules in a way that state schools can't. Of course, some people feel that that makes them very rigid.

Overall, I'd say state schools and independent schools want the same things for their pupils - they want them to have opportunities to be well-rounded individuals - to have excellent academic teaching, opportunites in music, drama, sport etc. Unfortunately, due to funding issues, not every state school can provide these. But then not every independent school provides them either!

I'd say look at all your local options, look at your budget, and do what is best for your child. My DCs go to an independent school which wasn't the most popular decision amongst some family and friends, but we felt it was the best thing for the DCs.

We are sending dd1 to private school in sept. she is going t into year 5 bout this school goes though to sixth form. We decided to move her out of state school because her school is awful. There is currently no head or deputy and they have been on notice to improve by Ofstead for a year and nothing has changed. She is G&T but also has high functioning autism.
The prep school has small classes, focuses on individual strengths and has great behaviour.
However, dd2 is starting state school in sept, and we have no plans to move her at the moment.
I'm a believer that not all children fit the same schooling. We will of course consider private for dd2 if needed later but feel that we need to see how she manages there and if they are able to support her (she also has autism but worse than her sister).

There really are so many factors

where you live
what provision of primary and state in local area.

needs

special needs or child falling behind-smaller classes can be good.

sahm parents may not want wrap around care.
som people have family to support often see grandparents at pickup.

income

childs personality-my cousins little boys age 8sports mad
plays footie for county.

I suspect he will go private as the 2nearest state comps wont offer the same provision, hes currently in state primary.oh by way hes a twin and his brother has completly diffrenet interests.
every childs differnt.

My eldests in state primary.
it has breckfast club between 8-9 £2.50
afterschool club -3.15-5.30 £7
school dinners £1.75

I know one mum 3kids at school and uses all 3

so £12 a day per child
3=£365days £180 a week
*4weeks £720 a month

ok 3kids but just with 1 kid its £60 week £240 a month.
looked at pruvate primaries their after school club and berkkie club much cheaper and longer.

my daughters primary has no after school sports and my eldest loves sport.

shes also struggling acadmemically and needs more 1 to one.

But we cant afford private education.

it all comes down to income which then allows you achoice.

i think if you ask parents who use state if they had money would they switch private they would say yes.

I also wonder if maybe private primary maybe prepares pupils for applying best senior schools unlike state.

state schools dont do verbal reasoning.
a state school pupil wanting to do 11+may need tutor.
some privates all through 4-18here so more continuity and ideal if have kids varying ages.

i know lady who put her son in prep nursery as said was cheaper than out private local nursery.
she then applies to top state primary in area stones throw from our house
she dident get in so he stayed at private outstanding prep.
she has younger child and often wonder how people manage with 2+kids in private.

my advice to poster is looka around all local state and private availiable to you.

think what proviusions important to you.
your childs interests.
commute

and see whats best for you and your child.

just read francis gilbert school rules-fab book wish I had read it pre applying and looked at more schools.

It's worth it for us, but if I had to choose between private primary or private secondary I would go with secondary - I don't think, for example, that any significant gap in absolute academic levels opens up until Y4 at the earliest, and as far as I can see there is nothing much wrong with our local village state schools. If I wasn't working I could also spend my time ferrying the DC to extra curricular stuff which they currently do at school.

However, OP is in London and that brings up a whole lot of other issues which we don't have and changes the independent school choices a lot as well - certainly no boaters and blazers round here (they have a dress code rather than a uniform).

That tends to be my opinion too, stealthsquiggle, where I live - I think, for my children, in my circumstances, private education is of more interest again at secondary level, when I don't think my educational input will be of as much use! Still undecided on that, though - just nice to know I'm lucky enough to actually have choices.

dixiechick 3. Not restricted to national curriculum. DD's school approaches grammar, spelling, times tables in a more traditional way.

What do you mean by 'more traditional way'? These are pretty basic skills!

My DDs have all been to state primaries.We started off at a huge town primary with 30 in a class .We soon realiosed that the excellent results were nothing to do with the school!!
We moved to a rural area and they were in a class of 13 and 16.They read every day , really really focus on basics. Go on a loads of school trips.When you are only moving 13 chikldren you only need 3 parents to drive. Go to the nearby grammar school for extension and enrichment classes. Every child gets to be in whatever sports teams they want to be in. . Pick fruit from the school garden , bag it up to sell to parents and the community, been horserideing, camoeing, rock climbing , to craft bakery, obeservatory (at night obviously),Betty's bakery ,swimming lessons and many more all in the last month. use local tennis courts, playing fields, sports hall etc.

We have two really good state primaries we are on the waiting list for (after pulling out of a private prep) One is not even a mile down the road, our local village C of E school and it is idyllic in every way, v. close to beach/church etc. Many think that the downside is that the school is too small, it is small to be fair but the main issue may be that they combine classes, so reception/yr1 in one classroom so the reception intake is only 15. When we visited though we loved it, it has an outdoor swimming pool that is well maintained, it has a cookery room, and although it is small the children seem to thrive. The advantage is with this one is that it is a feeder school for the C of E state school a very, very good school which is always oversubscribed, you are practically guaranteed a place here, the only other high school in town has a very bad rep.
The other school which again we are next on the waiting list for is a 20 minute trip down the road, again another idyllic village and a great reputation. They have the usual 30 class size and does seem to have a better ofsted than the first, trouble is we haven't seen this school and so only have the rep to go on, so who knows.
I myself had a private education from 3 -16, my Mum was a single parent who was a nurse, we lived in a small house her parents owned and her attitude was that she could then spend her earnings on my education ( I was an only child) I am eternally grateful to her for this and I loved my school and the girls that are still my best friends, but I was and am not academic and I was not a high achiever, I went to Uni but only just scraped though and now run a small business, I wonder if things would have been anydifferent at a state, probably not. However I did thrive in the environment, all the trips, the pastoral care etc. I believe that our village states rival this with the location, trips and cosy feeling, so I have made my decision based on this.

@ flexybex - I was told by the head of the state primary we took our DD out of that she no longer considered learning times tables necessary and that learning them by rote actually had a negative impact on the children's learning. I imagine that this is the kind of thing Dixiechick is referring to...