Getting help in school for bright children...

[Zeppmum]

Ok,Im new to this website but from reading some of the older posts i will get honest opinons and possibly some advice towards the next step..

My daughter who is currently at the end of her year 3,came home with her report the other night,she is level 4a reading,3a literacy,3c maths.
Iam proud of her as all parents are about their own,but her teacher has said over the past year,she is exceptionally bright,there are a few others in her class like it,so im not saying shes the golden child by any means,but now she is going into year 4 i was hoping with said results on report that she may be put on the Gifted and Talented List..
Wny am i being so pushy?,Because shes told me at home that she wants more challenging work at school-if shes already 3 years ahead mentally in certain aspects of her learning(her literacy,im not saying all)then shouldnt she be given work or at least some form of additional learning that is at her level?
Any comments or advice welcome please :)

sorry your post is confused - has she just finished Year 3 (age about 8) ?

If so then none of her scores put her three years ahead.

Sorry you maybe confused, the aim at the end of key stage 2 is level 4 in all subjects. So your daughter might be a little ahead but not much.
I think you need to go and talk to the school and see if they set the pupils, and what they can do to stretch her a bit more if she is bored. I wouldn't think this was gifted and talented level I am afraid.

Yes she is,and according to her teacher she is three years ahead in reading,
Thats was what iam asking advice for on here,is she above average or not?

My concerns are really if shes not given the challenging work/reading shes been asking for in school now,it will affect her a few years down the line..
Experienced the same with her elder sister-who had been to the same primary-,who when she reached Yr 7 was placed on the GT list..
Im thinking maybe the school co-ordinators not on the ball perhaps??

Isn't 4b 'expected' at the end of year 6 so 4a in reading would be three years ahead of average? The school should be differentiating work already.

You could also challenge her by working on her maths, which is more average.

OK,can anyone tell me definatively what criteria meets the requirements of this list?
I just need to know in case,yes she is or no,she isnt,before i go demanding this and that..i know everyone has to fight their childrens corner in education these days,im not much of a mum if i didnt take a keen interest am i!?

Ok - so she's about 8 and has a reading age of about 11 ?

I'm not sure that reading skills go on the gifted and talented register but maybe they do, either way I'm guessing your next step would be the libary / book clubs to get her some challenging reading that is suitable still to her maturity level - school will still have lots of books she would enjoy.

3c for maths - depends what ahe got last year - if she was a 2a at end of year 2 then progress to 3c (one sub-group in a year) is OK, if she started the year as a 1c then 3c now is really fab.

Thanks Merrymonsters :),Yes thats what i was told last night by her yr 3 teacher,im just wanting to do the right thing for my daughter thats all..

Yes Thanks RosemaryandThyme,this is what im not sure about either,but i will be taking her to the library weekly over the holidays,she reads a book a night at home and yes i guess her maths is average,but id just like the school to recognize shes capable of higher level literacy-which reading is a fundamental part of..

Official G&T lists no longer exist so maybe your school doesn't hold one? If they do is it only for top 10% in which case your DD has to be in top 3 of class of 30. DS's school does but just for its own purposes. If the teacher is happy to tell you how well your DD is doing then you hope she is differentiating work for the higher achieving kids.

The expected levels in juniors are
Year 3: 2a/3c
Year 4: 3b
Year 5: 3a/4c
Year 6: 4b
So your daughter is average in maths and ahead in literacy.
In our school you go on the G&T list (or as it is called in our school, Able and Talented) if you are having specifically diffentiated learning. So some of the infants who have a reading/comprehension age of 4 years ahead are taught in the junior classes for example.
My DS1 has a reading age 4 years ahead (and has been since he started school) but isn't on the A&T list as his learning is fine within his classmates - there are lots of good readers in his class.
DS2 however (reception) is taught with year 1 for literacy and maths so he is on the A and T list (Even though his reading age is only about 2 years ahead, and his maths only a year ahead). He has an IEP which is a list of quite simple things e.g. the reading book band they expect him to be on next - and what he needs to do to achieve that band, the things he will be learning in maths. I think it is really more for my benefit than the schools - they are quite capable of stretching him without any need for a piece of paper to tell them to. But as we get a sheet each term showing what the class will be learning it shows me what things will be different for him.

info on levels here
tbh schools won't do much for advanced readers - most children who love to read will do it anyway. But you can ask what they will do to stretch the top group in literacy / maths.

If there are a few children in her class at that level then hopefully they are all being given appropriate work - it's not as if your DD is achieving at a different level from the whole of the class.

I think children often say they are bored for various reasons - sometimes they will be bored, other times they might just not enjoy something, other times they may not understand something and at other times they will have been bored for a few minutes. Being bored sometimes is a good thing - no one is ever going to be challenged every second of the day. If my DC say they are bored I do have a habit of reminding them that only boring people get bored. Or that there are always things I can think of for them to do......

I wouldn't worry that she was too high ability to be challenged. Your dd's class probably has others working at the same literacy grade. My dd was a 3a in reading and 3a writing at the end of y3 but is not top of her class. She was sufficiently challenged in guided reading and there were enough children to make a top group.

Both my DDs were like this and although bright were by no means alone - the school just had them work together as a group where they were given more challenging work, and it worked fine.

DD1 is now in Yr 6, has got L6 in English and maths - she's the only one in her year to get both but I think she's just one of those who is naturally good at exams. She's part of a group of about 12 children in her year who are all working round about that level and the school handles it well. Her secondary has a good reputation with able children as well.

DD2 has just finished Yr4 with 5c in reading and writing and 4b in maths - again, she is bright but she is not about to hit A-levels at age 10 - that is teh sort of thing that IMO would merit special interventions.

Thats some really useful and guidance from all who have commented,I appreciate your input.Yes,I will have a word with the teacher she will have for Yr 4,if not the head teacher before end of term next week..
I suppose iam working on the past experience of my other daughter at that school,it seems the children who are in between gifted and talented and average dont get much support so its not until they get to sceondary school when they will be picked up on as a high achiever..What i mean is if shes Level 4a now in Yr 3,then i would expect her to leave Yr 6 with a Level 5,as did my other daughter..She was only identified as Gifted and Talented for English when she joined Yr 7 at the secondary school..In her case,she has now finished Yr 9 and in between Yr 7 and 9 has been acknowledged as gifted and talented in MFL,Art,Science with top 3% of her Design Technology..
So you can understand my stance on this..I know all children are different and im not expecting my daughters to be the same,but from that past experience at the primary school i dont believe the slightly more able children are being helped enough...

I do know that the secondary DD1 will be going to is very hot on supporting the able ones - not just the baby Einsteins, the ones who get clear L5s in Yr6.

However, their primary and middle have both done very well with them, so IMO if the school is worth its salt they will be able to handle it. Certainly both my DDs are far more advanced than I was at their age - and I was considered very able, but differentiation just didn't happen much in primary then. They're tackling concepts in writing (genre writing, formal writing, non-fiction, instructions) that I was not introduced to until Yr7, not Yr4.

And these are normal state schools - one good, the other rated only satisfactory last year (shows what OFSTED know...)

Having their name on a list means little, it's what the teachers do with them that matters. Neither DD1 nor DD2's schools keep a list, but the standards they have been set and the work they do just says it all.

Yes i agree,The secondary schools are more equpped to support and acknowledge the bright kids-well lets be honest it does look good on their National stats doesnt it!?
And like you both my daughters are and were more advanced than i was at both ages,and again i was in top class but but we didnt do a quarter back then in the early 70,s to what the children are doing now,its right over my head completely!

I will disagree about having their name on a list,because if you arent on that list for whatever list and whatever reason then you dont matter..
Example...If a child with slight learning difficulties,is just above the level of requiring additional support,they wont be on the list for getting funding for a support assistant to help with their classroom learning..I have seen it..
The parents of that child who has similar but not the same learning needs as the other cant get funding because they arent on the said list which meets that criteria..So yes,tis the same with the slightly more able,but not nearly as talented child,they need to recognised as potential high achievers but they cant,because they dont meet all the criteria to be on the list,but they are above average..
All said and done every child should have the education they deserve,im just hoping to get mine just that...

she wants more challenging work at school

Be pushy about that, ignore the levels or if she's on G&T list (it's a box ticking exercise at best, anyway), just say the above more firmly.

G+T does not mean any more funding. None whatsoever.

G+T listing is a nice thing to share with Granny. Nothing more.

You could complain to Ofsted if you think children like yours are not being helped enough by this particular school. It's the sort of thing they like to examine.

Good plan,I will do both, DontEatTheVolesKids,Yes Ofsted can have a phone call if im not satisfied with what i hear..Il make a fuss,if thats what it takes its worth it..

I will say its a good thing for the kids at secondary,because they do get to do some good MAAT days where they have events the kids are intrested in..but yeah,no funding for schools G&t is pathetic..Now on the other hand,were my kids emotionally damaged or from a "poor"background(which iam,just not that poor that i feel the need to leech off the social to feed any addiction!,)then i and they would be having all sorts of help and support-educational included thrown at us..Makes me bloody seethe...
Well,i will say thanks for all comments,i will get answer soon and post it up here,in case anyone else is in similar situation..

I understand what you are saying and why you want the support but im not sure they would do much extra to support a child whos doing so well, especially when kids who arent doing well cant even get support, my youngest daughter is behind having finished yr one on 1c and who has other problems, she doesnt get any extra help. My older daughter is doing really well on level 5 in year 5, it would be so nice if schools had the funding to help all kids :)

Your last comment sounds quite nasty Zeppmum
I think you need to calm down a bit!