What should I look for when choosing a school?

[Letie]

I am looking at primary schools for my daughter and am going to be going to some open days. Has anyone got any tips on what I should be looking for or good questions to ask which will give me a realistic insight into what the schools are really like?

Have you checked out myschoolgate.co.uk? It has a 'trip advisor' type ratings system for schools.

Read the ofstead reports.

... read the Ofsted reports with several pinches of salt on hand.

I think you get a gut feel (or not) for a school you like.
It's worth thinking about what you are ideally looking for. Do you want:

• a school that has great pastoral care
• a small school/large school/don't care
• school that really focuses on academics
• lots of after school clubs
• lots of homework, or no homework
• a "diverse" school or one where children may all be from a similar background
• lots of outside space that is frequently used?

Once you've thought about what you are looking for this may suggest some qeustions.

I asked questions about how work was differentiated, how/if the school used sets, how free play in Reception worked, how they integrated the children into school.

I relied a lot on word of mouth (of which I got a mixture of positive and negative comments).

If the Ofsted raises anything specific that you are concerned about (e.g. the Ofsted for DD's school mentions that they don't stretch able writers) it is also a good idea to ask about it.

My advice is to think about where they go after Primary School. Is there a 'usual route' that children follow from one Primary School up to their Secondary? Go and look at the children that school is turning out and use that to make a judgement.

Redsky also has given a good list of what you might like to think about.

Agree with redskyatnight. Also make sure you are happy with their toilets and refectory.

Do they have before and after school clubs if you need these to work?

Ask to look at the children's loos.

I confess to not looking at any of these things very much before choosing a school - DS1's school is the closest of several very close and was the only one not oversubscribed last year. Of the 3, it's the only one that isn't over and on very busy main roads. It has a nursery class, we used to use the children's centre there, and some of his childminder's other mindees go there. Of the other 2, one has a much better OFSTED rating but is very oversubscribed and had quite a tight distance criteria (and no one else from CM is there). The other was oversubscribed last year but is now in special measures and being forced into becoming an academy. It seems like a nice place to me but I'm glad that my kids don't have that uncertainty hanging over them yet (Gove might well come back to have a go at their school).

The thing I wish I'd looked into is about how they communicate with you as a parent - we had several meetings with the nursery - one a term I think, but I've only had one much shorter reception class meeting with DS1's teacher. The good-rated school seems to have a bit more of that kind of thing, and I would have particularly liked more information/communication on how they teach reading and how to work together to support that and other learning.

I look at the children and see how engaged they are in their lessons.

How the school organises (or doesn't) the visit. If they can't get organise that I don't see how they can organise a couple of hundred children.

Relationships between the Head, the teachers and the children. Take your child with you and see how they relate to him/her.

I have had completely different "findings" when visiting the schools to that which I would have had I gone on Ofsted reports and other parents views.

When we looked we were clueless, especially as DH and I are German so we had no idea about the English school system.

We found:

• Ofsted is good as a guideline but it is not giving a overall picture

• Gut feeling is better than Ofsted. We saw one school where the head couldn't stop talking about how good their SATs results are. But when we were shown around it was boring and the girl didn't really looked all enthusiastic about telling us about her school.

• think about what each school offers and what is important for you. Do they support music lesson, how is IT incorporated, is there any outdoor learning, do they do school trips, how often and what kind of PE do they do.

• look at the classrooms. Do they display a lot and does everything looks perfect or will they show what less artistic pupils do as well?

• how is the relationship between pupils and teacher? How do the children react when the head/deputy head comes along?

Some schools show the parents around by letting Year6 do the tour. Ask them questions about what they like at the school, how often they go away, do special things/projects, PE.

I had a look at the schools website where they publish newsletter and diaries. Good for seeing what is going on during a school year.

Then some practical issues:

• if you consider a school where you have to drive, how is the parking? Do a test drive during school run and see how much more time you need to consider
• if you need before/after school care, is there anything available at the school, any scheme where children are collected and/or are there childminders available.
• School uniform, how much is mandatory and logo-ed? Some colour schemes are difficult to get on the High Street.

My rule of thumb is go for the nearest unless you've a compelling reason not to. Apparently school only accounts for about 10% of educational outcome (rest all determined by parents, economic background, gender, ethnicity etc) so the difference between one good primary and another is pretty negligible. That sounds irresponsible but I do think people underestimate the emotional and practical benefits of being near the school esp at primary level.

In addition to the great advice above I went a lot on how I felt whilst in the school. I can't explain it better than to say it was a little like when we bought our house - we had a feeling as soon as we went in.

Getting a bit WOO in my old age.

Remember that you do not get to choose a school. You simply name your preferences. Make sure you look at the admission criteria for each school as that will help you work out how likely you are to get a place.

• Ask how pupils' views about their school are taken into account - is there a school council, how often do they meet and are there any examples of how they have changed/improved the life of the school
• Ask whether parents are welcome in school (to help with reading/accompany trips etc.) and how many parents currently do this
• Ask if there's an active PTA (might be a sign of engaged parents and a good working relationship between school and parents) and how any money they've raised has been spent
• Try to talk to parents who currently have children in the school - preferably those who have children in KS2 as well as FS/KS1
• Ask the head or deputy what they believe the strength of the school to be, and what the weaknesses are (and what is being doing to address them)
• Check school website for copies of policies on things like SEN, bullying etc. and also minutes of governors' meetings (can be v revealing)
• Note how the admin staff interact with parents - you'll be seeing a lot of them over the next 7 years!

1. Location 2. Location 3. Location 4. How you and your child feel about it when you visit 5. Website (If they don't make an effort here in 2012, how many other things will be slipshod?) 6. Ofsted - well, the bit on how good the teaching is anyway. 7. Results v intake - but only in so much as they are significantly better or worse then other schools in the area. Where we live, the schools have a few points between them in SATS which makes the results largely irrelevant.

The other thing to keep in mind is your child. Which sounds daft, but not every child is the same and not all will thrive equally well in the same school.
If your dd is quite self-reliant and independent, then pastoral care may not feature quite as highly on your list than if your dd is more nervous, and timid and more reliant on outside support. It's not just about a good school, it's about the right school.
And have a look at newsletters etc - it will give you an idea of what else goes on (after school clubs, trips etc). Those things are not mandatory for teachers to run, they do it voluntarily. If there is a lot going on, then it would demonstrate teachers who are enthusiastic and want to be there and to provide the best for the kids. Absolutely nothing extra, and you are probably looking at an unenthusiastic staff, and it's not likely to be the best atmosphere.
And see if you can speak to other parents. They'll tell you the hidden good and bad points!

What we found helpful was having a couple of relevant questions which we asked at each school (in our case about specific things that we thought might be issues/important for our DD).

The difference in the way that each school answered these was very revealing about their attitudes and general 'style'. Some were really specific, giving examples of how they'd tackled this kind of thing before, others were vague and waffly, and it let us get a feel for them.

A long time ago but we looked at whether the boys and girls accessed computers and other facilities equally and how advanced their classwork seemed to be. We also wanted nice teachers and met lots of them.

If most of the girls go on to a independent school in the top 20 - 30 for A level results according to the FT tables that would be one to go for. Only private primaries select by brains so best only to look among the academic primaries on the private sector if you want a good one.

As above, read ofsted, but also read between the lines & look at parents comments via communication etc etc.

See if there are any up coming School Fetes - its Summer after all, this will give you a better feel for the School when its not on its best behaviour s it will be on open days, though do look at those running the stalls & DCs that interact with the teachers & speak to them - We did have one year were we had nightmare grannies from hell turn up with GDCs from another School - they were rude, aggressive & turned the air blue & would have put me had I been looking & not realised they had no connection to the School.

Also look at your own DCs personality - I had great advice from teaching friends & family, that being that strong minded DCs will do well & learn even in a bad School & these Schools have the best facilities as have more money thrown at them - DDs School at that time was showing up as doing well,but locally had a bad reputation of old - I took my Uncle & Friends advice & it was the best choice I could have made - its now our very best local School & though there has been problems along the way, its always been dealt with really well & its a great little School all round.

polly I think you are right (at least for most of us outside London)

Having a cohort of local friends to 'grow' through school with, and who are around to play out with as they get older is fantastic. It also allows DCs to be independant eg walking to school, calling for friends etc.

All the other points are valid too.

I chose our DCs school (from 3 good available local primaries of equal academic etc standing) with my gut, when I saw the most enormous green field out the back with children at playtime, small dots in the distance, just running for the joy of it!

I am in London in fact (and can only dream of a huge green field!). But I do think my rule works here too - it takes the angst out of choosing. We didn't look at the other state schools we might have been able to get into as I knew there would be things I preferred about them and things that were not so good and all it would do would increase dissatisfaction. Also think PRH is right when she says the choice might not be yours anyway, so definitely don't set your heart (or even look at) one you have no realistic chance of ever getting into.

What I remember being most impressed by when we visited DD's primary (apart from the warm atmosphere that struck as soon as we walked through the door, but that's difficult to put your finger on really) is that in all the lessons children were sitting at their desks working quietly or listening to the teacher. Half an hour earlier we'd visited a neighbouring school where in one of the classes the kids were all shouting and causing chaos. Also, we'd stood out in the playground with the headteacher before the kids went in, and while we were talking to him, a little girl came up to him complaining of a cut on her knee. He basically just told her to run off - I think because he was busy talking to us - but we would have much preferred it if he'd attended to her needs first.

My DD is now at secondary school, as are most of my friends' kids, and looking back now I think the thing I liked most about my primary compared to others was that they were very kind to the children and they put a lot of emphasis on the children being kind and well-behaved to each other, whereas other schools I can think of were quite hot on the academic side but weren't very nurturing. I'm glad we chose the school we did.

Loads of good advice here. I went with 'gut' too but had 3 good standard schools to choose between (sorry don't lynch me). What did it for me was whether I could 'see' DS there. And you know what, I've been proved absolutely right. It is far and away the best school for him now. He loves it and is thriving. It was also very warm and the head is fantastic and obviously knew all the kids and was involved with them and they with her. It turned out to be much easier to choose than I thought it would!