Who is repsonsible for school bus children?

[JessyRose]

My daughter is due to start school in September of this year, she is quite young for her age and has speech and language issues along with showing signs of anxeity. All of which have had involved with various health professionals, mainly my health visitor.

My problem is when we have come to prepare a care plan with the school we have stumbled across an issue over her travelling on the school bus. Within her care plan myself and the health visitor felt that a hand over between the bus driver to a memebr of staff would be best to ensure my daughter safety. However apparently there is a "grey" area when it comes to the bus driver (The bus carries 60 pupils and there is only the bus driver on board) dropping the children off and a member of staff been on morning playground duty, the bus apparenly often comes early at 8.40 and the teacher on duty apparently doesn't go out until 8.45 and apparently is sometimes delayed due to "talking" to parents. I feel that at the age of 4 my daughter is far to young to be dropped off alone besides a busy school drop off road and then left in a playground for any amount of time without any CRB checked adult to supervise her or the rest of the under 12's from the bus. The head appeared to be understanding to my concerns and said she would try to come up with a solution but that she would have to discuss the issue with the Local Authority to decide who is legally responsible for the safety of the pupils during the drop off period, so at present she is unable to say to the request of a handover.

I am deeply disappointed with the whole situation that in this day and age that common sense doesn't triumph that this is the safetly of a 4 year old girl and other young children and there are 5 minutes in ensuring that the worry and risk is rectified; either the bus should wait until there is a teacher present or the school should ensure that a member of staff goes out to meet her of the school bus. I thought the profession of looking after children would be a more caring one rather than doing only what one must or only what one gets paid for right down do the line.

Ahhhh well after that rant, does anyone know who is legally responsible for the safety of children once they are dropped off via a school bus?

So, if that's your view (and forget 25 kids, it'll be 30 - minimum in KS2), then on what do you base your absurd assertion that "most" teachers are in it for the money and the holidays? (hollow laugh) Why do you have the "right" attitude, but the rest of us, apparently, don't?

Come back in a decade and be honest about how you have found the experience of being a teacher. We'll be listening.

clamTue 03-Jul-12 23:43:42

Jesse If it's for September 2013, then you won't have applied yet, or been accepted onto a course, so don't count your chickens just yet. Have you any idea of the competition for such courses? The bar is set extrememly high these days (dh is a University admissions tutor for the B.Ed and PG)

I look forward to you posting on here in future, if you make the course, and letting us know what a breeze it all is. And I would strongly advise you to amend your views on the teaching profession before filling in your application form or attending interview.

I did make the course in the September 2010 intake but due to bereavement I had to leave unfortunately. So I have an idea of what I am up against.

fallen she'll have to seriously amend the saccharine personal statement to even get an interview at University at this rate. Will need a lot more "substance."

The bar is set higher still, with every year that passes.

trish, the school doesn't offer the bus service. It is nothing to do with them, it is run by the LEA. It is the responsibility of the LEA to get kids to school when the school is too far away, as it is in many rural areas. The arguement is actually solely between the LEA and the parent. The head is trying to help by arguing on behalf of the OP, but if the LEA refuses to change, then it is for the OP to then challenge the LEAs decision. The LEA is responsible for their part of the care plan, so they are responsible for getting an SEN child to the school if the SEN child cannot use the normal transport provided. So in this case if the dd had an SEN statement they would be responsible for taxi-ing the OP's dd to school. BUT the OP's dd doesn't have an SEN statement, but a care plan. I think (but am not sure) that a statement is legally enforcable (you can make the LEA cough up - with difficulty) but I don't think a care plan is.

So the issue is not with the school at all, who are not responsible for this. It is with the LEA.

Jesse I think you have a very valid concern about the bus. Argue it out with the LEA, to try and get them to fund a TA to meet dd off the bus.

I am pretty shocked though, that you consider all that you have said to be NOT offensive to teachers. I think you have been pretty rude, and expressed your opinion in quite offensive terms. That is of course your choice, but I am shocked that you think what you have written is not offensive. Self awareness will stand you in good stead in a PGCE.

Are there aby 10 / 11 year olds on the bus? I know it's not ideal but older children can take on responsibility.

Or a parent who lives near the school and is walking their child and could hang around with dd for 15 mins.

JessyRose- I started teaching around the time you were born and the job was much, much easier!! There is no comparison at all to today. Anyone could do what your mother does and sit there thinking it looks easy. She obviously hasn't a clue!

I find the older the teacher the better

I find this an extraordinary statement! A teachers ability and attitude has nothing to do with age. Meet any older teacher and complain about the workload and they will say 'tell me about it!' and they all will tell you that it isn't the job that it was - they loved it in the 'old days'. I meet many teachers of my age who have given up early or who have gone to job shares.
Good luck with a PGCE, it may open your eyes - but be warned -intending to do one and being actually given a place are two different things!
The bus is a problem to take up with the LEA.

I don't know of one single older teacher who works full time.

Neither do I-they either leave early like me or they go to job shares or part time in some way because they want a life beyond the classroom!

While they might well be nice and look after a child who arrives before the official start of the day -they often do-they don't want it taken as 'part of their job' to fit in with parent's childcare and transport arrangement, especially when the parent is rude with a huge sense of entitlement.

'I don't know of one single older teacher who works full time'

53 and counting, no baby breaks beyond a term.

Just done some quick googling. I'd suggest you contact some other leas and ask for their risk assessments and policy documents to highlight where the gaps are in your leas safety policies. You might want to start here www.wymetro.com/BusTravel/SchoolTransport/MyBus/HowDoesYellowBusWork.htm. You could also make a freedom of information request to see the revised risk assessments your lea completed after the ice incident. You need to be working with the head to get the lea to clarify matters, any evidence you can gather to highlight their gaps will be invaluable.
I'm ignoring the teacher bashing. With difficulty.

www.wymetro.com/BusTravel/SchoolTransport/MyBus/HowDoesYellowBusWork.htm
Sorry link didn't work.

As others have said, you need to talk directly to the LEA.

We had some trouble with safety issues regarding dd's disabled transport and took it up with the LEAs transport department, getting the school to back us up (which is different from blaming the school- you can do one or the other but hardly the two together).

Not sure that I'd employ you.

If the parent is responsible to get the child safe to school, then the school should not offer the bus service or it should limit it to older children

They don't Trish it's the LEA that offer the bus service. But they don't offer the school any funding to pay for an adult to escort children from the bus to the school gates, or to supervise them until the school gates open.

This is why most parents do not send their 4 year old to school on a bus. It's the parent's right to make that decision but should something happen to the child between getting off the bus and going into school, the parent would be liable.

I agree that it is not a sensible option to put a 4 year old on a bus with no provision the other end and, of course, I would not do that myself.

I would speak to the LEA about it or make other arrangements.

It's nothing to do with the school, or the teaching staff. They have another job to do, which is to teach or support the education of the children.

Teacher bashing aside.....

If the LEA is responsible for paying for your transport to school, (because you live in a rural area) then it needs to be safe and age appropriate.

So you need to clarify with them (and the school) exactly what happens during that journey and this grey area of time, and tell them that it isn't acceptable that under 12s and especially 4 year olds are left alone on an empty playground with no supervision. Either they wait on the bus, or a member of staff is to be provided.

If you get no joy from the local authority, then you need to escalate it to your local MP and newspapers.

My DCs go to school on the LEA-provided bus (DS2 currently YR).

On arriving at school the bus is met in the car park by a teacher who lines all the children up and takes them straight into the school building. If the bus arrives early the children are taken to the playground & told to join their class line-ups. However, our bus is never super-early, like The OP's, and is more often late, so it's not such a concern.

I am happy with our school bus situation, but it's obviously arranged (very well) by the school. The 'bus teacher' is the school's LS teacher & it's always her who meets the bus. This means she's familiar with all the children & the various bus drivers, and can attend to any discipline issues which the bus driver informs her about or carry them further to the HT.

I wouldn't be happy sending DC2 on the bus otherwise (& the fact that older DC1 is on the bus too helps).

Actually I thought very little ones DID have to be handed over as part of Safeguarding and Ofsted.

At my dd's school, reception children have to be taken into the classroom and handed over to the teacher. After a term or so, they then have to be taken into school. This is perhaps my dd's school policy, but they are just not allowed to be left unattended in the yard before school. It just doesn't happen. I think it is in the home school contract thingto prevent any mishaps

Update on the situation.

My daughter is due to start school next Thursday and I am very pleased to say that all issues regarding safety have been resolved. The school wasn't really willing to do much themselves (budget issues) so I contacted the local authority myself and pointed out some legal requirements (advice I was given from a solicitor) they then in turn carried out a safety survey and after coming to the conclusion that the route was unsafe for myself to walk her to school and agreeing that the current arrangements were indeed placing children at significant risk, they have now changed the timetable so it arrives 5 minutes later and instructed the school that a member of staff must be there to supervise (from 8.40am) all bus children off the school buses and while they are in the playground before school.

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FairenuffWed 04-Jul-12 08:38:30

If the parent is responsible to get the child safe to school, then the school should not offer the bus service or it should limit it to older children

They don't Trish it's the LEA that offer the bus service. But they don't offer the school any funding to pay for an adult to escort children from the bus to the school gates, or to supervise them until the school gates open.

This is why most parents do not send their 4 year old to school on a bus. It's the parent's right to make that decision but should something happen to the child between getting off the bus and going into school, the parent would be liable.

I agree that it is not a sensible option to put a 4 year old on a bus with no provision the other end and, of course, I would not do that myself.

I would speak to the LEA about it or make other arrangements.

It's nothing to do with the school, or the teaching staff. They have another job to do, which is to teach or support the education of the children.

PARTS IN BOLD

I discussed indepth certain comments on this thread, the LEA said it was quite worrying that some apparent teachers were giving out such advice as I was given on here and I was informed by the local authority and a solicitor that actually your parts in bold are completely UNTURE.

If a child was to have an accident AFTER been dropped off from a school bus it would be The Bus company, The LEA and The school who would be investigated and in no way would it be the responsibility of the parent. ALL THREE HAVE A DUTY OF CARE TO BUS CHILDREN.

School bus children arrivals have EVERYTHING to do with the school according to legal advice that I obtained and advice I was given from the LEA and on the from department of education this is on a NATIONAL basis. Schools have a duty of care to all children to ensure that none of their children are placed at risk to their knowledge. If they see safety issues with any part of school life they have a duty to act on such issues and rectify them.

God I definitely wouldn't employ you.
Not only are you happy to teacher-bash but you want to get 'official people' to bash them too!

My experience is that the LEA is not taking responisbility and is claiming that it is the responsiblity of the parent and Bus company, which is crazy. There was misbehaviour on the school bus carring primary school kids and parents got a letter to ensure their children behaves, how can they when they are not there. The only other adult is the bus driver and they cant supervise and drive!, these kids are aged 4-11

This is a problem is caused because Chaperones, Escorts or Passenger Assistants (whichever you call them) have and are being removed from Warwickshire Primary school buses, Warwickshire County Council have just told more parents that they are about to loose their PTA.

How can a driver drive the school bus and supervise all the kids whilst driving? This is a crazy cut and the council is not making the savings either, £2.50 for one school a day!

There are some parents that have a petition running on Warwickshire County Councils website to ask the council to change their minds. Please sign this, it runs to the end of January13.
bit.ly/11t528M

They are also on Facebook AssistantsOnSchoolBuses

Have signed.