Who is repsonsible for school bus children?

[JessyRose]

My daughter is due to start school in September of this year, she is quite young for her age and has speech and language issues along with showing signs of anxeity. All of which have had involved with various health professionals, mainly my health visitor.

My problem is when we have come to prepare a care plan with the school we have stumbled across an issue over her travelling on the school bus. Within her care plan myself and the health visitor felt that a hand over between the bus driver to a memebr of staff would be best to ensure my daughter safety. However apparently there is a "grey" area when it comes to the bus driver (The bus carries 60 pupils and there is only the bus driver on board) dropping the children off and a member of staff been on morning playground duty, the bus apparenly often comes early at 8.40 and the teacher on duty apparently doesn't go out until 8.45 and apparently is sometimes delayed due to "talking" to parents. I feel that at the age of 4 my daughter is far to young to be dropped off alone besides a busy school drop off road and then left in a playground for any amount of time without any CRB checked adult to supervise her or the rest of the under 12's from the bus. The head appeared to be understanding to my concerns and said she would try to come up with a solution but that she would have to discuss the issue with the Local Authority to decide who is legally responsible for the safety of the pupils during the drop off period, so at present she is unable to say to the request of a handover.

I am deeply disappointed with the whole situation that in this day and age that common sense doesn't triumph that this is the safetly of a 4 year old girl and other young children and there are 5 minutes in ensuring that the worry and risk is rectified; either the bus should wait until there is a teacher present or the school should ensure that a member of staff goes out to meet her of the school bus. I thought the profession of looking after children would be a more caring one rather than doing only what one must or only what one gets paid for right down do the line.

Ahhhh well after that rant, does anyone know who is legally responsible for the safety of children once they are dropped off via a school bus?

FallenCaryatid - What happened after the child slipped under the bus on the ice?

Due privacy issues that information was unable to be disclosed, all I know is that the parent pulled the child out of the school.

Orangeandlemons - Can't the bus drive into the car park?

This again is something that the health visitor suggested but during in the meeting we were told no.

This is getting ridiculous.

We do not know if the school is refusing to meet the child off the bus/ the bus driver is refusing to hand the child to a member of school staff.

As far as the law stands, it seems the parent is responsible for the child until the start of the school day. (I may be wrong, but that is my understanding). I know I am responsible for my 13 yo while he is on the school bus.(Although his school and the head of the other school which use the bus are fantastic about insuring the children behave appropriately when they have been alerted to an issue) I know my friend has had issues with her child being bullied on the school bus, and the school refused to intervene because the children are not in their care at the time. - I hope that clarifies the legal side somewhat.

I suggest if you have major concerns you travel with your DC on the bus, ride a bike home, then ride back to school to collect her and leave your bike at school overnight. Yes independence is important, but I suspect you feel her safety is of even higher importance.

"Nor I am verbally lashing you for your different opinion am I? So why do you feel the need to do so to me?"

Because what you are saying is offensive, incorrect and needlessly aggressive. It's not an opinion, it's wrong. It might be my opinion that the moon is made of cheese, but I would be wrong.

"I just believe there are harder jobs than teaching"

So? There are harder jobs than being a brain surgeon too. Why is it a competition to you?

Teaching is not easier than it once was. That is a fact. Your opinion is based on your own lack of knowledge and factually incorrect information. That's not an opinion, that's ignorance.

you aren't allowed on school buses as a parent due to insurance

I feel a little sorry for your daughter.
If she is going to need additional support, and her parent hasn't yet learned that being rude and offensive to the very people that are trying to help her is never going to get you as much support and sympathy as being polite, then she really is going to miss out over her life .

Why are you putting so much effort into bashing teachers (because that IS what you are doing) when you could be working WITH them (and us on this thread) to find a workable solution for the benefit of your daughter?

What reason did they give for not doing this? Surely it is the most sensible way of dealing with it. Who told you no?

Can you not go back and fight this? It seems like absolute basic health and safety to do this, and not being able to do it sounds like a jobsworthy to me. I think this could be your fighting point, and also the fact that 60 kids are on the bus unattended. I think you need to fight your LEA on this, beacuse I think (but am not sure) that they are breaking every Health and Safety rule there is. Also have they done a risk assessment on this?

amillionyearsTue 03-Jul-12 21:31:29

I am going to say something else too.And gently.
very gently.Do you think your daughter has"speech and language issues along with showing signs of anxiety" because she may be a wee bit frightened of you?

Jessy writes in tears - She started to display seperation anxiety when her Grandfather was killed in car accident which she was also involved in herself at the age of 20mths. I hope that answers your question for you

If you want the co operation of the school to look after your DC before the school day officially starts i.e. doing you a favour then I suggest that you are friendly and polite!
I was teaching before 1983 and the job has changed beyond all recognition - it is far more pressurised with a much heavier workload.

For 5 minutes i think you are over thinking it. And you only live 3 miles away?

Get her to buddy up with an older child, Cycle with her, get another parent to look out for her, buy her a mobile, or stick her in a breakfast club. These would all be cheaper than £20 a day. Not sure why you have to bash the school and teachers, I'm sure the other kids are fine walking from the Kerb to the school...

The mistake in this thread was to start bashing teachers - before that helpful advice was more likely.

Would it be easier asking the school if they can make this bus drop off later? If you are rural there is not much chance of traffic jams making the bus late, so just time it to arrive at 8.50??

I do think the 60 kids is a big issue. How will a 4 year old with anxiety cope with that alone? I think you have a very unhelpful LEA, and need to fight them. Are they studentsof different ages on that bus, and if so how old?

Ours come on a mini bus. I just cannot imagine a 60 seater. The LEA also pays for taxis if needed.

JessyRose,I am sorry for what happened to your daughter and her Grandfather.And thank you for telling me.

Would deferring her entry to school for a year help? I know the same problems will still exist next year but your DD may be a more capable of dealing with the situation with a year's maturity behind her.

I only say this as my Dd is due to start in August when she will be 4.8 (we are in Scotland) but I've deferred her for a year as she is in no way mature enough. She has no issues other than lack of confidence and maturity. Myself along with the nursery felt this was the best way forward for my Dd.

I hope you get some resolution I can only imagine how worried you are.

Again, I have not teacher bashed at all.

I don't think the job is as hard as it once was.

For the reasons you give most parents of very young children I know whose Kids are entitled to bus transport do NOT use the bus service till the child is old enough to hang around at the school playground on their own.

It is not the school's responsibility. It's yours.

As a primary Head I'm interested in the fact you seem put out that the teacher won't assess your daughter before she starts school. No wonder you think teachers are only in it for the money if you think it's unreasonable that teachers don't babysit for you or work with your DC before she starts school.

And I must say that my teachers today work a billion times harder than I did, newly qualified 20 years ago.

OP teachers are hyper sensitive to teacher bashing. You have been critical of teachers, saying that they don't care, are jumping on a band wagon, yada, yada, yada. (I'm not a teacher.) But I can see why the teachers are queueing up to have a go at you.

If you want to argue with them carry on. If not, apologise and start a new thread.

So tell me, what was hard about teaching in the old days?
Or are you going back further than the 30 years of my first-hand experience when you remember what your parents said about their jobs?

TheenormouscrocodileTue 03-Jul-12 21:53:52 - Would deferring her entry to school for a year help? I know the same problems will still exist next year but your DD may be a more capable of dealing with the situation with a year's maturity behind her.

I only say this as my Dd is due to start in August when she will be 4.8 (we are in Scotland) but I've deferred her for a year as she is in no way mature enough. She has no issues other than lack of confidence and maturity. Myself along with the nursery felt this was the best way forward for my Dd.

I hope you get some resolution I can only imagine how worried you are.

I did think long and hard regarding deferring her entry, her birthday is August 20th (she will be just gone 4 when she starts school) and she is very young for her age. However after intensive discussions with the school they actually advised that with her emotional issues it would be in her best interests that she started this year. I was assured that they could cater for her needs. If she started next year she'd have to start in year one and would miss out on foundation stage.

Surely the people with responsibility here are the LA?

They are providing the free transport to which OP (and many othe families nationwide) are entitled.

They should be providing a safe service. That means delivering children to school, not to stand around on the street.

I hope there is some clarity on whose responsibility this handover is (parent to LA/transport, then LA to whom?) before a child comes to harm in such a gap.

Any other parents of bus children seen this thread. What if anything is done by LA to ensure that once the child in entrusted to their transport, hey do atualky reach their intended destination?

Mmmm - you said yes teachers get paid more and do less, it's a shame that teachers these days do not put in as much effort and care as they teachers once did If that's not teacher bashing I'm not sure what is

In answer to your question in our school although pupils are provided with bus passes from the age of 5 in 20 years I have only ever known one pupil of that age to trave on the bus and she had 3 older siblings with her. Parents generally wait until they are older before availing themself of the facility.

We used to see pupils onto the bus at the end of the day - technically we didn't have to but did it to help parents - this involved one teacher seeing out twoclasses (60 pupils) while another escorted the bus children to the road. There was no shelter and often you would stand for up to 15 minutes getting soaked.
One afternoon a different bus driver failed to stop. I rang a parent to explain that the bus hadn't stopped and the parent called me 'a useless cunt' for allowing it to happen. He also threatened to sue me for endangering his children.
I no longer do bus duty

MushroomSoupTue 03-Jul-12 21:58:34

As a primary Head I'm interested in the fact you seem put out that the teacher won't assess your daughter before she starts school. No wonder you think teachers are only in it for the money if you think it's unreasonable that teachers don't babysit for you or work with your DC before she starts school

I never once said I was put out I said it was advised from the school that it we waited, I took that advice on board! I never once said that I disagreed with the advice given.