What would you like your child to get from primary school music education?

[lingle]

I'm gathering views because I've started working doing music in a primary school and have reasonably free rein......

what would delight you if your child had achieved it at year 6? Being able to read music? Being able to use their instrument or voice to join in with others? Being able to play chords on a ukelele? a recorder? a tune on a violin? a tuba? Passing Grade x on an instrument? Singing or Playing a solo without looking mortified? Being in a rock band? Writing their own songs? Knowing and caring about their favourite musician? Having a positive can-do approach to lots of genres, including classical? Playing a rarer instrument like oboe? Knowing the secrets of rock improvision or blues improvision? Being able to say "I'm on grade 3"? Being able to say "I can play thistune on thatinstrument"?

go on, distract me from my other job (which is rather solitary and analytical) please.......

I'd be very happy with:

Being able to

• read music
• play the recorder (cheap so its easy for them to have one to play at home)

and

• be exposed to different sorts of music & talk about them
• making up their own songs/tunes

Also, what about some basic singing teaching (ie teaching how to sing, rather than simply singing together)? I'm always surprised that lots of children learn to play an instrument, but few have singing lessons.

I would love to see my DD:

• know how to read music

• sing a song either in a choir or alone but obviously subject to talent, both parent are tone-deaf so I don't have a lot of hope

• play an instrument she likes and play music she likes but also knows how to play other pieces, I don't mind her playing modern music as long as she knows how to play classical pieces, jazz, blues, swing

• has some understanding about different musical periods and musicians and the different instrument groups

• has a teacher who teaches it with enthusiasm and fun

I have two daughters at primary school and I am a keen choral singer.

I would love it if every child had the opportunity to learn a proper orchestral instrument and was really encouraged to keep it on, if they showed aptitude. (Our school gives every child a clarinet in Year 4, which is fantastic. Sadly, very, very few have kept it up. Not sure if that's due to parental expectations or school culture).

Plenty of opportunities to make music with others - choir, recorder group etc. And also to get involved with some "big" events. This year, for the first time, my daughters have had the chance to take part in some local music festivals and suddenly there is a bit of a buzz around the choir!

And having music - especially singing - as part of the culture so that it is not weird or embarrassing. Especially for boys. We need a fresh supply of tenors and basses for our choirs (am biased!)

my DCs go to a state school but my eldest also goes to the junior department of a music school on Saturdays. The things that I love are:

as a preschooler and infant he learned kodaly hand signs and got a really, really good grip on rhythms, and moving to music doing all sorts of fun things. The juniors do more focus on theory, but lots of fun, practical music with voice and percussion. It sets the kids up really well for learning instruments and they end up really competent and confident.

Kodaly method is great

I would like them to have a strong sense of rhythm, some basic theory, and have had the opportunity to try instruments to the stage where they can start to feel good about the noise they are producing....

....to have heard a variety of different musics, to have had the chance to write some themselves.....

They already do a lot of singing, including a fab Sing-Up concert recently, but there isn't much other than singing at this point at the dds' school. We're fighting for it though...

My DD's are in years 4 and 5 at a school with a separate music room and teacher.

They have learnt violin, recorder and steel pans as a class and the trombone and double bass as individual instruments. They are sitting grade 1 ( trombone) and Grade 3 ( bass) this year. Obviously they have learnt to read music and they have been in various different music festivals with children from other schools.

They both sing in the choir and do some basic theory. They get to listen to and explore different instruments and styles of music.

I would have expected a bit less tbh but am thrilled that the school we've chosen has turned out to be so musical.

exposure to different styles and genres

opportunity to have a go at a range of instruments and the chance to learn an instrument (that isn't a recorder necessarily) for longer than a year

chance to explore rhythm, percussive sound and opportunities to write and make own music

ability to read music by end Y6 would be great!

Kodaly from as young as possible.
Group singing for boys and girls.
Basic music reading.
Recorder, or tuned percussion for everyone as soon as possible.

To have tried an orchestral instrument for at least a few sessions by Y4/Y5.

An opportunity to perhaps sit grades, though I'm not so sure about that, because not everyone can afford to go down that route.

Have fun with music (both the OP and the children lucky enough to have her!)

To have to sing properly and not be embarrassed by singing - including boys.
To know the basics of reading notation and basic rhythms.

To have had a serious opportunity to learn an instrument other than in a whole class setting.
To have performance opportunities. (maybe even compulsory??)
To be taught by a passionate MUSIC teacher. Not a maths teacher who once passed grade 6 violin. (purely a fictions example there, honest!)

I believe music should be a norm in schools. Not nerdy or elitist. Compulsory singing in secondary schools I say. Where's Gareth Malone these days????

very interesting.

standard notation is not in the national curriculum which is intereting given that it featured rather prominently in your responses.

Improving the quality of singing is a top ofsted priority so they are more in touch with you there.

Kodaly itself wouldn't feature, but many of the ideas developed by Kodaly have found their way into the national curriculum I think.

I'm not convinced that learning to read standard notation is a "must" for everyone. It would be a pretty hard slog for a child that doesn't really "get it". Far better to use that time to get a good sense of rhythm and pitch internalised ... and a very strong sense that making music is great fun and supremely rewarding. But also make sure that the opportunities are there for children to learn classically - and that they are encouraged to do so.

In dd1/2's junior school they do:
In lessons:
Playing different instruments. Year 3 all play the recorder. In year 4 the council provides a lesson a week in a whole class setting for an instrument. They can chose to continue it for reduced fee after that.
Listening to music
Learning about instruments
Some musical theory.
They learn some reading music (treble clef) with the recorder.

Extra curriculum:
Orchestra (anyone who has played an instrument for a year is welcome-so there are pianists, guitarists, recorders)
Choir (anyone)
Boys choir (very popular, and also very good)
Audition choir (30 children, year 4 and up)
Band (year 6, audition for a pop style band)
Recorder groups
(I have at least 1 dd in each of those other than boys choir for whaich they're not elegible)

They do a instrument concert and a singing concert each term. the choir, and audition choir do various external concerts, sometimes in quite grand place.

I agree with much of what has been said above (reading music, learning to play an instrument with some proficiency if starting young enough, possibly achieving grades).

I also agree with collective benefits - performing in a group, working together - learning collaborative rhythmns and harmonies.

I personally would like the children to be exposed to a wide range of music and from my point of view (we're in a large city with it's own orchestra) - I'd like the students to see something of 'high brow' music events. Orchestra/ Opera/ Ballet. Maybe not a 3 hour session - but the Nutcracker is fantastic and great show. There are orchestra days especially for children where they can touch intstruments and talk to musicians. This all exists but our school doesn't take advantage of it. I'd like to see a bit more of this creep into primary schools.

Possibly more performance opporutnities (both to attend and to participate in).

DS is at a state primary. In yr2 they all learn to play the recorder. In yr4 they all learn to play the violin. Fab. However all the optional extras have come across to DS as being something girls do. There is a choir but very few boys go. There was an option to learn flute or oboe in yr3 (in the school day but modest fee for parents) and only girls took it up. To give credit the class teacher has chosen a Micheal Jackson routine for the school show and they're going to be zombies

So my plea is really try to make it inclusive and I'm not bothered about a formal grading.

Anything that inspires a lifelong love of music. This means exposing children to all sorts of genres, artists and instruments. You need music they can relate to - so maybe start with a current mainstream artist, someone like Rita Ora, Justin Bieber, One Direction etc., then look at their influences and the origins of whatever style they are playing. It could be a direct influence or a more tenuous link - a couple of chords, some drums in the chorus etc. Encourage kids to look online at different artists, current and historic, and identify how they fit into the music world.
Whatever you do, don't play them endless classical dirge, sleazy jazz and a lovely selection of muzak (theme tunes etc) - this put me off for a good few years and I've only relatively recently found inspiration in music again.

All primary school children are now entitled to a year's whole class instrument teaching - which is why you get whole classes of Year 3s all learning the French Horn. But I've not yet come across anyone who reports a really high uptake of the instrument once the year is up. So something is going awry there, but I don't know what!

This might sound like a fake question, but for those of you who put staff notation as a priority, can you explain why?

Lingle - is that in England? Can you link - would love to see that in our school.

Kodaly - absolutely - love it.

If nothing else, singing and yet more singing. Proper singing in parts. Supplement with percussion to enhance sense of rhythm etc but I am so sad that none of my children (yet) have done whole group singing - it just sets the bedrock for more musical education later.

I went to an open music lesson for ds at the end of last term - he's year 2. They've been learning sol-fa and also been doing rhythmic notation based on normal notation. Each child was able to tap out a bar of rhythm that they had just been handed, confidently, in time. They then did a bit of work on the sol-fa singing, and sang a new tune which had not been introduced before ever, just based on the sol-fa system (and I think Kodaly hand movements). They then were split into two halfs and each set got a chance to play something on the chimebars/ glockenspeil which the first set 'doctored' to remove unnecessary notes. Again, they played a new tune purely based upon the sol-fa that their teacher got them to do.

The whole lesson was full of music - there was hardly any time at which they were not actively making music, mainly singing.

They also have had the chance to go to record club and choir at lunchtimes this year and the choir has been fantastic.

I'd like what Elibean and Takver want.
It seems to me that so far there hasn't been enough music taught in my son's school.
Music can be applied to any subject so my son may not actually know that he's done some.

I'd be happy if there was no reading music in Primary. if he chooses an instrument and we have a few at home, he can learn through individual or smaller lessons.
I want him to learn about rhythm and melody and timing and to appreciate pure enjoyment of a load of noises coming together to sound marvellous.
What a great job you have, lucky you!!

sounds lovely mistlethrush.

hanah - google "wider opportunities" +music

lingle I didn't put notation as a priority, but I've taken it for granted that it comes with good music teaching.

Literacy teaching doesn't just get children really enthusiastic about listening to stories and making up their own, but also gives them the tools to read and write themselves.

I've taken musical notation for granted as the kids coming out of the DC's pre-school music class can all clap rhythms with crotchets, quavers and rests, and in reception they do semiquavers and more complex rhythms. After a year of group instrumental classes (which most start in Y1), they are starting to recognise notes and have made the connection between position on the stave and pitch. It gives them confidence and makes them feel like musicians! I think it's hard for people who haven't learned to read music in childhood, as the alien notation is quite a big barrier to learning an instrument or singing in a choir otherwise.

It's tricky because music is divisive, in that some children will have access to music lessons and/or enthusiastic listening at home, concerts etc, whereas others will have none at all, so it must be very hard to accommodate everyone in one lesson.

I would like it if all children finished juniors able to read basic music and play a simple tune on the keyboard or recorder, and be able to perform as a group.

My main want would be exposure to all genres. I have seen a lot of 'inverse snobbery' around classical in particular, it makes me sad that a lot of children/teens I know feel like they should only listen to the latest pop and that anything else makes them a geek.

I agre with Chickencalledkorma.

I wish our school would do more to get boys more into music. It's a very sporty school , but they don;t seem to do much musically. It's really only ever the girls that join the choir. They ALWAYS sing the same small handful of songs in asembly. I actually went to the same school years ago and it was really musical then. Our repertoire of hymns was huge, everyone learned recorder, there was a recorder group, a little string orchestra that joined up with other local schools. If you joined a music group it was in class time and not voluntary during the lunch break like it is now.

My DSs are both pretty musical. DS2 is doing well learning Suzuki violin which he can do privately but in school time and at school. DS1 (8) has a fabulous choral type voice, he is SO in tune and in time when he sings, picks up tunes incredibly easily - sings harmonies for fun along to TV theme tunes when he thinks I'm not listening, he plays amazing chords on the piano at home, goes major - minor - major - minor -with no training....but no WAY will he join the coir 'cos it's 'gay' ( the in word in his peer group sadly!) He learned cello for 2 years along with whole class but refused to ever pracice at home also cos it's 'gay'. Piano lessons were 'gay'.

I would like him/them to be able to read music, and basically just feel free to enjoy playing an instrument and joining in musically without his mates making im feel he is doing something girly.

Realistically, just having some appreciate of the basic elements of music (higher, lower, fast, slow, different types of instruments) and especially different rhythms. Nice extras would be recognising a music staff & how it functions, know some basic notes on the staff, some idea that there are different musical keys that sound confident or sad and only certain sounds go together in the key. Being able to pick out some very basic tunes on a simple instrument. When DD was in music club they literally memorised a nursery rhyme worth of notes to play each week on keyboard, was very good achievement for 10min. group lessons on shared keyboards. She still tinkles on piano for fun.

I would strongly emphasize rhythm & different styles over notation.

ime, it usually takes much more time than state school lessons or sessions can provide to get kids further along than that.

DD is the first violin-lesson pupil at her (large primary) school to ever take (& pass) a Grading exam. She is struggling with the concepts of different musical keys at the moment; last had a lessons 3 weeks ago. Don't know if her teacher will manage to clarify it to her in remaining 2 lessons (10 min each, but at least it's 1-to-1 lesson because she's so far ahead of other children) before end of term. That's the reality of relying on school lessons for tuition.

I wish our school had a choir/purely singing club.

Charasmatic teachers count for a lot, sadly never enough of them to go around!

I dont mind what the school do music wise, so long as they don't encourage him to play the violin........