Don't you feel the burning excitement of competition of the phonics check?

[flexybex]

We're now introducing a Y1 equivalent of KS1 SATS/ KS2 SATs / 11+/ GCSEs / A levels for mummies to tutor for / compete / crow about.

God help us over the next few years.

We have provided phonics "lessons" for parents for nearly 20 years and they are always well attended simply because most parents want to be in a position to support their children.

Letters are silent but they represent sounds and those sounds combine to make words.

My dc's school do assessments/tests of children's phonic knowledge fairly frequently - I'm not a fan of unnecessary testing, but if children in yr 1 don't have a good grasp of phonics, it makes sense to ensure that this comes to light and that something - either in terms of individual or group need - is put in place to address it, surely?

True. But spelling is strategic. You either know the correct combination or you don't and it's done in silence. The student may use a strategy of imagining what his combination sounds like and applying that to paper, or he may not. Personally with a lot of English words I wouldn't because principle and principal sound the same as do shoo and shoe, two, to and too. So, if I rely solely on what the words sound like in English I'm going to have trouble spelling quite a few.

Of course, but a sound, working knowledge of phonics is the basis of spelling, isn't it?

I see spelling in English as a bit like art. You learn to draw 'properly', then you can draw like Picasso. You learn to spell phonically, then work out the deviations.

Dunno. That's how I learnt and now I'm watching my 5 year old do the same and it certainly working.

and phonics teaches the correct combination of letters and the different ways sounds can be written

Phonics can't teach you whether or not you're being asked to spell whether, weather, wether, their, there, two, too or to, can it? That's down to your understanding of the context set in the question. You don't need phonics to tell you that so many variations exist. Observation can tell you that. But, as they used to say to me in exams, always read the question carefully and answer the question that is asked, not the question that you wish had been asked. If you pay enough attention you can simply apply the correct spelling in your answer. Phonics here is irrelevant.

If phonics was irrelevant you would be looking at a blank page

hmmm, that sounds more like ideology than spelling to me. Those of us who learned using look and say can still spell and aren't looking at blank pages.

Those of you who learnt by look and say still were taught to identify whole words that were written using a phonetic code.

learnandsay I think many of us are waiting for you to eat your h-a-t once your daughter starts reception and you have a better understanding of phonics. Or perhaps you will cling on to your misguided beliefs, we shall see. Would you prefer your daughter to have a go at writing or be too scared to write because she's not sure of the spelling? Often you need to get it wrong in order to get it right. Children inevitably go through a phonic stage of spelling when they are still learning the rules, their vocabularly is broadening, their brains are still developing. It's part of the process. Of course context and learning spellings both have their place too but if you have to start somewhere you start with the sound of the word.

learnandsay I have to say, I find you quite confrontational on many subjects within primary education - especially phonics. This thread was not started with the intention of dissecting the validity of teaching the phonics method (or indeed any other method of learning to read and write), yet it has been pushed that way.

I suggest, if you feel that strongly about phonics, you avoid opening threads that are quite apparently about phonics; there are parents of primary school children, like myself, who find these threads and the input of teachers, like mrz, and parents, like IndigoBell, very informative.

I do feel you need to take a step back when your DC starts primary school, and allow the teaching staff to do what they are qualified to do, or you risk confusing your DC with conflicting information and doing more harm than good.

Teachers - do you feel the Yr1 phonics check is valuable? Is it throwing up some genuine areas of concern, such as split vowels - as mrz has identified from the pupils she checked? Or do you feel it is a little bit of unnecessary beuracracy and box ticking?

I think it is valuable, although I am in Wales which does not do the 'official' check.

As I said earlier, we check phonic knowledge every six weeks. It does not take long and we use that information to work out exactly what the children need to be taught next. We use real and nonsense words.

I think it is valuable in that it has forced some schools (my ds's being one) to take a long hard look at their phonics teaching.

We do a check every term, so weren't surprised by anything in the check. But it wasn't onerous to carry out and most of our children enjoyed it.

Thanks HumphreyCobbler, I agree it is obviously advantageous to know any area(s) of weakness and periodic checking of knowledge is an integral part of that.

Feenie, I think that you've hit the nail on the head. Schools that are regularly testing phonics knowledge will already have a pretty good idea of how the children will perform. For those who are not, I guess the phonics check is an eye opener and gives them the opportunity to remedy any weaknesses.

Is there any (official) reason why parents should be told of their DC's result? Personally, and especially if we are wishing to eliminate an area of competitive parenting, I don't see the need for parents to know their DC's individual score. I do think that parents should know of any particular weaknesses, but is the individual score actually going too far?

I agree with Feenie. It's def valuable because it's forced some schools to improve their teaching.

And I think standards will continue to rise for the next year or two as those schools work out how to teach kids to read.

I know our adjoining infant school has introduced RWI for the first time this year - and improved their kids reading.

I don't know if this move was prompted by the phonics check or not - but its reasonable to assume it played some part in the decision making criteria.

Bunny - no teachers are claiming its an eye opener.

The schools that arent good with phonics are all claiming that they knew only half their class would pass and so it was a waste of time

The eye opener will be when they're told it's not acceptable to only get half the class to the expected standard......

Sadly, IndigoBell I think you are right. At least something is forcing their hand...

I wish my ds's school was forced to do this check. They have just ordered their new reading scheme - ORT. FFS. Doing the check might make them think again about their teaching of reading.

Any chance it could be the Letters and Sounds Floppy Phonics?

sadly no

I have seen it.

But thanks for the straw

mrz, surely you should not be revealing words that are in the test when children who have been absent could be tested up until the end of next week?

Did you not see the words were out on MN on Monday ?

No, I was too busy writing reports and planning lessons and being a girl guides taxi service!

Several idiots teachers tweeted them in support of Michael Rosen last Monday, who continues his stupid ill informed campaign against phonics.

It's put me right off him. I love his work, but he is given a platform to spout total bollocks atm. I had the chance to go and see him speak in October but I have turned it down, not sure I could be civil, given the damage he has done.