So stressed about son's behavious/other parents. Advice welcomed

[Sopster]

Hi all, I posted on here a couple of weeks ago aftermy son (5.6) had been sent to the deputy headmistress for 3 incidents at school (taking a pen off another boy as his wasn't working, bragging about going swimming one night and using his arms elbows to prevent same boy sitting next to him). These incidents all involved the same boy who is a very close neighbour who my son has been friends with for 3 years. I was concerned that the parents of this boy had made a complaint about my son (which they had) and the school were acting on that. I have since been into the school and had a lovely meeting with headmistress and both class teachers who were all v positive about my son and reassured me whilst those incidents werenot nice they were pretty normal 5 year old behaviour (my son was also punished quite strictly by my husband and i at the time).

In the meantime these neighbours (who were once good friends of ours) have sent us an email saying that they are disappointed it has taken the school being involved for us to take our childs bad behaviour seriously, they cross the road when they see us out and have encouraged their son to keep away from ours (despite the teachers telling me they always play together at school and walk around holding hands at school) and have now invited every child in the class to their sons birthday party except my son (who appears to be his closest friend).

Today there is a note in my sons contact book saying there was an accident in the playground today when my son hit this other boy with a skipping rope because he was swinging it too close to his face. Both boys went to see the headmistress as the teacher couldn't get to the bottom of what had happened and the HM just told her to inform me and said the boys would be monitored closely at playtimes. I have spoken to my son tonight about it and he's said it was an accident and they were just playing but I have now asked him to keep away from this other boy as all these inceidents seem to involve him and I'm becoming increasingly worried about what the other parents will say next. They clearly think their son is being bullied by mine and this is just going to add fuel to the fire. I don't want to punish him for today as he says it was an accident and the teachers have given me no reason to think otherwise but I also really don't want them going around continually badmouthing him.

He is generally very good at home, dotes on his little sister and I have never had behaviour problems with him in the past. However I am realistic enough to know that he may be acting differently at school adn don't want to come across as a deluded parent.

I'm sorry this is so long but am so upset again tonight. I don't even know what I want anyone to say but an outsiders thoughts would be appreciated.Thanks x

Gosh, this sounds horrible for you! Sounds to me like the school are keeping level headed about it. But i think you are right to tell your son to avoid this boy.

your neighbours sound awful - thank goodness the school are being sensible
have you shown the HM their email?

You sound very sensible, but (hand on heart) are you sure he's not doing anything out of order? Something has obviously upset them...

well... from an outsiers point of view...

if MY son was coming home from school and saying that another child was taking his pen, bragging about stuff he had done that mine hadn't (in order to upset him), shoving him so he couldn't sit down next to him and had hit him in the face with a skipping rope then yes, i would think that the other child was bullying him.

and yes i would complain to school, and yes I would probably avoid the child.

sorry.

i know from your point of view your son is a lovely, kind child. I am sure he generally is. but he isn't being nice to this other child is he?
and actually i would expect a 5 year old to know full well that it isn't nice to shove people out the way, or swing a skipping rope near their face quite frankly

what TIY said, I'm afraid

Hi - Ex-TA (male) here:

We had a Reception boy once who was totally out of control much of the time, and could hardly be allowed near other children at all - but I don't think your boy is anywhere near that category.

I'm not qualified to judge, and hopefully you will get replies from others on MN who are, but I would certainly suspect there are other factors involved in this. It sounds as if someone needs to get advice from other professionals, such as the HM calling on Behaviour Support specialists, Ed-Psych, Health Visitor, or some such if this continues.

If both boys had been friends previously, I think you (and possibly the other family) need to think hard about what may have changed for either of the boys, at school or at home, to bring about this situation. Children can be very sensitive to changes in their life, and react in ways that might seem inexplicable to an adult or an outsider. Changes such as: job/house/money worries; a birth, or a death, or an illness in the family can be sensed by children. Even overhearing a bit of adult conversation but not knowing or understanding the 'whole story' could worry a child.

In the meantime probably the boys need to be kept apart as much as possible at school; that is something we often needed to implement at schools I've worked in. Often though boys who always fight when they are together, still seem to seek out the other child.

It is possible that the one boy is rubbing your son up the wrong way, and that he has picked up his parents vibes of disliking your son after an initial incident. I have seen kids that secretly wind other kids up to breaking point ... but no idea what is happening here.

I have to say that I am also assuming that there must have been more than 3 incidents for the parents to react like this. However they are only getting one version of events, and I have seen children complain about things that I categorically know did not happen, because I was standing right over them at the time, but their backs were turned to me. So I would take the teacher's word for it. Can't see much excuse for grabbing another child's pen, unless the other kid had switched them round first.

Have a good chat with your son, explain to him that this boy is getting upset by his behaviour, and explain that even though he might want to be friends, it is best to steer clear. Also explain to him that he needs to make sure he gives you the full story so you can help him deal with things better.

Having said that, you may find that the boy then claims your son is bullying him by not playing with him! So best to hand it over to the teachers and ask them to help him make new friends - and for them to split them up.

And with "accidents", he's probably old enough to be told that if you do something that risks an accident, it isn't a good plan, and it risks someone thinking you did it on purpose.

I have to agree with TIY.

Thanks so much for your opinions.

What I probably haven't made clear here is this other little boy adores my son! I go into class to help and they are always together (I was there this morning!), always playing nicely when I've seen them. When we were walking to school the other morning he saw us and he burst into tears because his mum wouldn't let him cross the road to walk with my son and the teachers have said to me before that he is more dependent on my son than the other way round. I saw him when out on my own the other day and the first thing he said is "what's doing", "can I come round and play?". This is what makes me think it's normal children messing around and yes of course my son should know better than to swing a skipping rope too near to someone else but I've spoken to him about it and think accidents do happen.

I am now going to ask for the school to keep them apart even though I don't necessarily think it's what either boy wants but this situation is getting unbearable for me.

BTW I HATE the idea of bullying and like I said punished my child for those previous incidents and would come down on him like a ton of bricks if it was things that the school (or I) deemed more serious punching/hitting/kincking etc...

Just to be clear when I say I've only ever seen them playing nicely I'm not disputing any of the incidents the school have told me about and am cooperating fully with them x

speaking as lawyer (not in the sense of thinking about particular laws but in the sense of being someone paid to do strategy) and mother...

DO NOT REPLY TO THE EMAIL

sorry to shout.

the temptation will be almost ovewhelming, so please print it but then delete it and then delete it from trash.

as you were :)

ps not getting a reply will really take the wind out of their sails..... and if as I suspect they have leapt to judgment, they will soon make the same mistake with someone else too......

I wonder if the friend goes home wailing about "x did this, y did that" and they don't realise the some low level "bickering" "pecking order" type stuff does go on? When my dc complain about other children in the class often they want empathy and a hug, if a child is being bullied it's very different IME.

It could be that your ds wants some space from his friend and doesn't know how to do that without using this kind of behaviour. The school 99% of the time will have a good idea of the dynamics that are really going so all you can do is continue to work them over it.

The parents emailed you - have they raised their concerns with you before?

"have sent us an email saying that they are disappointed it has taken the school being involved for us to take our childs bad behaviour seriously"

ok, again this is just from my own point of view, and may not be the case with your son and this other boy... but

DS1 was bullied in his previous school, in reception and year 1.

he also ADORED this other child. he desperately wanted to be friends with him, which made the others boys behaviour even worse.
they often played together, however this "playing" usually involved the other boy encouraging ds1 to do things he shouldn't (which ds1 did becuase he wanted the boy to like him) and saying unkind things to him- lots of "i've got X, Y, Z and you haven't" and "I'm going to X and you aren't"

so, the fact that this child likes your son does nnot mean that your son cannot be bullying him.
I had to be hard in the end and just tell DS1 that he wasn't to go near the other boy.

I agree with previous posters though, go with what the teachers are saying. as long as they're keeping a close eye on them then I am sure the boys will be fine.

Like I say, i'm not suggesting on the basis of your post that what happened to DS1 is what is going on with yours. But I can see it from the other parents' point of view

Have you spoken to your neighbour and asked them to explain to you what is happening, in their eyes? I would want to find out just what the other parents understanding of this friendship and the problems are exactly. I would also try to do this in a non confrontational way. I would just listen to what they think and not comment at all - rather than argue. Then I would go home and have a good think. Is it true? etc etc.

I would then ask pass this on to the school and ask them to observe their friendship closely. They are very young so it is in everyone's interests that this situation is resolved very quickly.

actually that's a good idea.
i'd have been touched if the parents of the child picking on DS1 had come to me and said "what's been going on, how can we resolve this?"

thisisyesterday...thank you for your opinions and I'm sorry your little one had such a terrible time of it. I have many times tried to look at this from their point of view and as I said I absolutely would not stand for my son bullying anyone. I totally appreicate that people can 'appear' to friends and actually be bullying but I really don't think that is the case here (and really dont think I'm burying my head in the sand). I'm trying so hard to look at it from everyones perspective.

The 'incidents' outside of school include me and the mum chatting through window one day and the boys chatting through letterbox, when I said it was time to go my son shouted bye and ran off with me. 2 mins later other boy caming running over to our house screaming because my son had trapped fingers in letterbox. My son sais sorry as other mum came over nad demanded he did but whilst I'm not disputing he did trap them I also think he had no idea that he did. He just let go of letterbox and came with me when I asked him to.

On another occaion other little boy was in our garden and both were painting. Other little boy was clearly v tired after school and his pisce of paper blew off table. Hegot really upset because he couldn't catch it and ran home crying. Told his mum had been nasty to him so she came storming round and calle a 'mean little boy'. I was in the garden with them. I know he wasn't nasty.

I have thought several times today about trying to go round and trying to resolve it but they also had a baby quite recently and I don't want to get in the way of that. In all honesty, I'm a bit scared too. I am not one for confrontation at all...in fact I have never fallen out with anyone in my life before which I suspect is why I'm coping with this so badly (got a large glass of wine now!).

Apologies for bad typing and spelling...I'm typing too fast!!

I believe you, OP. I think I am more & more aware of parents who mollycuddle & have unrealistic expectations of how kids should work out their conflicts & problems. I had very similar with neighbour & finally moved DS to a different school to fix it; DS ended up badly bullied with terrible self esteem problems, partly as a result of years of parental badmouthing. :( I have no idea how you counter that.

All you can do is not engage with the parents and know in your own mind that you have done everything you can do to ensure that your DS is a nice & considerate person. Try to broaden his social circles.

They have had a baby quite recently There's your answer I think. The other little boy is feeling rather fragile and blaming your DS rather than blaming the new baby.
I'm still not sure what the answer is though. Involve the school for sure, but maybe not asking to keep them apart as your DS "dumping" him will make the poor chap feel even more left out.

Hope you're feeling less stressed this morning, OP. I think Choccy is right - the new baby is a big factor in this. The other boy is probably feeling very oversensitive and unsure of himself at the moment, and has also found a great way of distracting his parents from the new baby! They seem to be massively over-reacting IMO. There is nothing malicious in your son's behaviour as you describe it and the school obviously aren't worried.

It doesn't sound like the parents will respond well if you speak to them about this, so I would avoid them if I were you (also not one for confrontation!). However, don't put up with the mum storming around making accusations at you and your son as she has in the past - this is completely out of order and she should be told! Do speak to the school and show them the email - hopefully they can help your son avoid getting into siuations where he can be accused of these things. As someone else said, encourage your son to make new friends and broaden his circles. Hope things get better soon.

Hi I thought I'd add my experience as I think our DS have been in the same boat.

I have a friend who is far more of a mollycoddler and passifyer than me. I'm more a shit happens deal with it type of parent!

My DS is very responsive if I say please don't........., or please do.........
My friends children are more of the ignore mum camp - usually because it works, or throw a hissy about how unfair it is because, yep......... it works!

Whenever anything happens they overdramatise it - yelling at the top of their lungs about how DS ruins everything, how they hate him, how they want him to go home etc etc. Although friend says 'don't be silly, of course you don't' there's never any consequence for name calling, hitting out etc.

So on the surface of things my DS is made to look like a bad person, he is also non confrontational so will try and quietly compromise but they will talk over him, loudly, stating THEY are trying to talk and he NEVER listens.

It seems like this is whats happening here. I'm not saying that your DS behaviour has been flawless, no 5yo's is!, but to me to say he going swimming is not a major deal. I will also say I wouldn't assume the worst re hitting with rope incident etc - my DS wouldn't bother even letting it register let alone ruining his day so he suffers the same but just doesn't seek to incriminate anyone with it iyswim?

Other children are very good at knowing when they can get another child into trouble. Beacuse you, like me, take these normal and not major childhood incidents seriously other parents and children feel the need to tell you about them. Also their mum always believes its wrong doing against her children and believes them over anything and has led them believe anything that hurts, bad happens to them it someones fault and not just part of life.

The past 6 months I have taken to taking DS home when it's yelled they hate him and don't want him here, saying, 'thanks for telling me' to any tales, and mostly when they say 'DS has been mean' asking friends children what was said and then asking DS. Usually they have said something to him and he's said he's not playing with them if they're going to be mean - and they cannot deal with this. I say what consequence do they think they should ALL have!!

What I'm trying, and not very well, to say is relax. Stop taking every normal childhood incident seriously, ignore them. Children will get fingers trapped in letterboxes, paper will blow off the table, they will get hit by random objects and they won't always do what they're friends are doing after school.

The other boy's parents sound really unpleasant. I think I'd just try and ignore the whole thing. Delete the email and add them to your spam list. Engage with the school and tackle any problems with your son's behaviour as they occur, obviously (though what you've described sounds like COMPLETELY normal 5 year old boys tussling stuff to me) but otherwise just ignore, ignore, ignore. Parents can become seriously over-involved with their children's friendships and take huge offence at perceived slights, jump to the wrong conclusion etc, etc. Whilst difficulties should not be ignored and boundaries need to be set when there is unacceptable or nasty behaviour occurring, I think this kind of parental helicoptering over friendships can be really unhelpful.