Behaviour issues with school

[MrsOB]

Hi

I currently have real issues with the bad behaviour at my son's primary school. He is in year one, it is a three form entry school, and some of the children's behaviour is just shocking.

Last night, for example, he came home and told me about a child (who has a person allocated to him because of his bad behaviour) who pushed another child to the ground and then proceeded to stamp on his face and neck.

DS has already learnt a wealth of swear words from this child (including the dreaded "c word"). My other issue is that so much of the teachers time seems to be sucked up in dealing with at least 3 'demanding' children and those children who do behave get overlooked and less focus on them.

I do understand that of course, all children are not angels, but this particular child surely shouldn't be allowed in a mainstream school to injure other children like this? He regularly lashes out at teachers and other children - one day his teacher had scratch marks all over her neck and face from him.

It has got to the point now where my son is scared to go to school in case this child hits him - what he saw yesterday really upset him. My husband is a police officer and as he rightly said, if an adult had stamped on another adults head, they'd be in jail. This child however, was back playing in the classroom with more fodder to beat up!!!

What do I do? Do I just let it go and wait for the day it happens to my DS? Or do I speak to the Head about it?

Thanks for your time and advice,

It's not your call whether he should be allowed there or not.
It is your call to insist that your child is reasonably protected from violence. And your child should not be afraid to go to school because of what else he has witnessed. I would frame my mind around those last principles.

If the child is knocking over other children and stamping on them it is the call of other parents.

OK, I see what you're saying about it not being my call re:him being allowed there - but seeing as my son is afraid and other children and teachers are being hurt... how do I go about raising my concern of these issues within the school?

I really don't believe it is right to send children there each day, to potentially be assaulted - it isn't fair on them. Also, what if other children start thinking that is acceptable behaviour and replicate it?

Advice on how to move forward would be really helpful - an if anyone has experience of this situation I'd love to hear from them.

Thanks

I'd speak with the teacher initially, especially if it's affecting your DS that much. Maybe they've not noticed the affect on him, and quite possibly the other childen. Maybe the play/lunchtime teachers can keep a bit more of an eye on things too?

Just talk about how upset & scared your boy is, and how worried you are about him being safe. He cannot learn if he's fearful & you can't tell him to be confident when you are yourself worried. You can easily stand your ground very very firmly on those points.

Make sure you are sure of the facts of what happened with these other assaults, do not assume too much. It's common to get the wrong story or only find out after the fact that a child had been quite severely provoked and has been wrongly maligned.

Thanks for that ... I do have first hand experience of this child though - and it's not nice to watch.

I'll speak to the teacher (who I've already spoken to about this child and how it's affecting my son) and see where we go from there.

Maybe I'm just naive, but to me it's not acceptable to send children into this environment - and it's surely not what teachers sign up to .... being injured by a 5 year old wouldn't have me running to be a teacher.

Thanks

I completely agree with you that it is unacceptable for children or adults to be harmed by anyone in the classroom. The problem is the school also has a duty of care to the boy with behavioural issues. Where would he go of not allowed into the school? The best hope of teaching him how to behave appropriately in society is to teach him this within the school setting.

I do sympathise though as I have had this situation with both my older dcs on two occasions.

Does the school have a nurture group? In our case children struggling with behaviour/anger problems go to nurture group every afternoon. By all accounts it works wonders. They do a lot of 'circle time' type activities to learn social skills etc, and their usual class and teacher get a break from them too.

I would have another word with the teacher - you and your son need to feel confident that they have strategies in place to prevent other pupils and teachers from being 'attacked'.'

I have a DS with asd and have just agreed to keep him out of mainstream school, even though he has 'every right to be there' because I agree with you wholeheartedly and believe other children have the right to go to school without feat of being shoved or knocked ( both of which DS does without malice)

So my gut feeling is you complain. The school may have to deal with the other child but they also have an obligation to protect your son.

Can you make friends with the other boys parents? Gettin to know they might provide valuble insight....

Hairytoe (great name!)

Do talk with your ds's teacher. Keep any mention of specific attacks to a minimum, unless your son is directly involved, but discuss with her/him how being around this child is affecting your ds. Seek reassurance that he is safe, is appropriately supervised, knows what to do if there is a problem - and keep a log if anything at all happens to him.

I have had to do this twice for my apparently confident, loud ds1, who nevertheless did not know how to handle being with kids who were behaving in a challenging (to say the least) way. The teacher was able to reassure me, I could reassure him - and both kids who were troublesome have been able to remain in the school system and both have grown up to be very different young men. I really admire his junior school for working with these kids and giving them a stable footing in life - it will make my ds's secondary school a lot easier too. As someone said above, if the school were to lose these pupils, they wouldn't disappear - even though that may seem to you the ideal situation at the moment.

Oh sorry, OP was MRsOB, not hairytoe! (Still a great name)

That's so sad. That you're in a position where you have to send your child somewhere where he fears for his safety... :( :( :(
There is a boy like this is DS' class, but luckily DS doesn't seem to be bothered by him. Unfortunately though, I know that a LOT of the teacher's time goes on simply trying to control him/keep everyone safe, even thought he has one-to-one (he's a big lad). Also, DS has started to cop on that this child gets rewarded for behaviour that is always just expected of others, and knows that he'd get punished for things that go unpunished by this boy.
I don't know the answer, and I don't think the school can do any more than they are doing, but it's not pleasant. :(

Another one without an answer but the same problem here.

It seems so wrong that inclusion for one actually means exclusion for many.

It gets me down...

Please don't back down. Most parents will understand and it's behaviour that has to be dealt with sooner rather than later. Honestly, most parents will understand and want to deal with the issue.

Bloody hell verity :(

Huge swathes of the teacher's time being taken up by one or two individuals is, sadly, not an uncommon problem.

Sunscorch - without wishing to hijack... how do you feel about that?

My DS would be one of those 'individuals' which is why I've taken the (difficult) decision to not send him to school (he should start reception this Sept). The school will not allow me to provide a 1-2-1 assistant for him but neither do they have the funds to provide one. Without one, I know DS will be a terrible drain on a teachers sanity ability to cope with the class.

So, until a statement is in place, he won't attend school. I hope by doing this, the school will see I am willing to do whatever it takes to get him into mainstream education and not at the expense of the other pupils.

I totally see where you're coming from worry. From experience, the parents are often desperate to get the support needed not only that their child has an education, but that they do not harm the chances of any other child getting an education either.
It is often the LEA that wastes time in accepting that an individual child cannot get this education in a mainstream school, and bites the bullet to fund a place at a special school.
I know of 1 parent in particular that fought for 4 years to get help, yet the school insisted that they could cope and that his behaviour was fine - he regularly used to attack children.
You could be doing this parent a favour by taking your concerns to the HT.
Make sure that you do not make it a personal attack on the child. Focus on your DS and how it affects him. If enough parents voice concerns, the child might get the support that he needs, your children will get the environment that they need.
I would also question, that if this child does have 1-1 support, what were they doing during this incident? To be in a position where the child attacked was on the ground being stamped and kicked, is not an incident that you could say - "I just turned my head for a second" - something happened and the person paid to stop this happening was not there to prevent it.

This poor boy's parents I guess are worried sick. The last thing they want is for their DS to be acting in this way at school.

We have all got so hung up on league tables, school performance and perpetuating parental one-up manship and parental competitiveness, that we seem to forget to see that at the centre of this situation is a small, confused boy.

There but for the grace of God go us all.... from one who, up to 5 weeks ago had a "model pupil" for a DS and now, he was at home today excluded for persistant defiance! No big traumas, changes in routine or anything. Just an unhappy, confused 8 year old who can't work out why he is reacting the way he is.

Yes, OP, your child has a right to go to school without fear and to be safeguarded but that boy also has a right to be educated and nurtured by schools that call themselves "families" when all is good (when you're being a parent helper, being a school governor, helping on a stall all beeping day for the PTA summer/xmas fairs, baking endless cakes etc) but withdraw goodwill and support as soon as things go awry.

Rant over! Off to hug my mixed up DS!

WorryWort I just wanted to say- Huge respect to you for doing that. It takes a brave woman to face things as you have, and to make things harder for yourself for the sake of your DS and the children at the school. HUGE hugs of gratitude and and to you.

I'm learning the hard way that the only person who cares about my DS within a school environment is me, the only one who can protect him is me and so if i was in the OPs situation I would remove my child from school with a letter to the head explaining why. I would imagine that they would have to deal with this and in turn hopefully get more help for the child in question which in turn would make the environment safer for everyone. We are always asked to tolerate others and that we need to understand that the only way these disruptive children will learn is by example and to some extent i get that, but not at the expense of my child.

Just a thought but the school and child's parents may actually be glad if you voice your safety concerns to the school (in writing).

You don't and shouldn't know what is going on behind the scenes but it may be a scenario where they are struggling to get appropriate 1-1 care for him etc. The LA can't say he is coping fine if there is evidence to the contrary - you may actually be helping him get the support he needs by speaking out.

Couch it in terms of safety. The school are in loco parentis and have a duty to ensure your child is safe on the premises.

We are always asked to tolerate others and that we need to understand that the only way these disruptive children will learn is by example and to some extent i get that, but not at the expense of my child.

Do you know meboo a little more toleration of "others" would be a really good thing.

meboo - My child is the sort of child you are referring to. He does not learn by example. Your phrase 'the only way these disruptive children will learn' is fundamentally wrong. (IMHO)

My child has HFA (High functioing autism). He also has a massively high IQ.

What that means in real terms is that he's completed all the set tasks and worked out how to cause maximum disruption to the class.

I could equally say that my child needs to be protected , and get all emotional about it, because my son (even though he can unpick any lock and work out any code cannot tell me how he came to have a black eye) has certain social needs. So, who gets excluded?

Hopefully noone. Hopefully the parents all see that kids have got to get on with each other. One way or another.

You are right to voice your concerns your child is your main concern. However there is a lot of ignorance on this thread for starters you don't get allocated an adult for bad behaviour. It's not that simple. Anyway speak to the school, stick to the facts and your concern for your child's safety but try not to turn it into a witch hunt against a child with special needs.