To Kumon or not to Kumon. That is the question.

[megabored]

DD is starting school in September. Below are the Pros and Cons I have been debating recently.

1. She is bright, so should be okay without extra help in school
2. It is too early to put her through this
3. Kumon is expensive and time consuming.

The Pros

1. It may give her that bit of extra confidence at school
2. Earlier is better as then she can grow with that system
3. Its not so expensive as to be prohibitive.

I really cant decide either way. Please someone help?

and the pre school report is relevant to the OPs child who is after all 4 years old

So learnandsay you are happy that Mr Gove has dismissed the opinions of his own advisers and experts (the ones he has paid large sums of money to review the curriculum) to produce the curriculum based mainly on his own experience as a child?

I'm sure the OECD table is as reliable as the Libor rate.

And I believe he publishes his own made up proposals for curriculum reform, such as a return to the old O' level system for example, without even informing his own colleagues in government.

I'm not happy with this government at all, so if Mr Gove messes up education any more than it's messed up already I'll consider it par for the course. But I wouldn't imagine that his decision making is any more or any less party political than any other minister's.

Have you seen the sample KS2 English test clam?

No, I haven't - am in Year 4 this year - taking a break from all that SATs stress. Will it raise my blood pressure?

Well I think most of my Y2s would manage it quite easily
Q4
Circle the word that describes how William played on the field.
William played badly on the field.

Q10
Complete the sentences below using either I or me.

pulled out the keys from my pocket.
She asked to help her put up the pictures.
My team and are playing next week.
Why isn?t anyone able to understand what am trying to do?
I had to help with the washing up before Dad would turn on the television for .

media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/e/english%20grammar%20spelling%20and%20punctuation%20test%20%20%20sample%20materials.pdf clam?

mrz I did those test questions! What age is that for? I have no clue re. What key stage 1, 2, 3 etc mean (age wise).
I have today dropped kumon English, mainly because I am comfortable with where she at. Kumon was not adding much to the process. We are carrying in with Maths for a while longer though.
As for the league table of countries, it does not really matter where UK is compared to any other country. If you dc attends school say in tower hamlets in London for example, you will see a huge difference here compared to say Surrey. Not sure what that 'league ' table does. Agree also re. All the different styles of learning from china (rigid and rote) to UK (arty farty). I am sure both have their problems. The key lies somewhere in the middle.

On the one hand, mrz, that looks ridiculously easy (and especially in comparison to some of the current expectations on a KS2 Reading paper)...but how many adults do we all know who always mix up 'Jane and I' with 'Me and Jane'???!

Just read the whole sample paper - it's shockingly easy at level 4/5 then quite a bit of a jump to level 6. My ds would find it easy but I doubt he's been taught any of it - just finds syntax/punctuation quite instinctive. Looks like yr 6 teachers might in some cases have to revise a little themselves...

I'm tempted to try it with my Y2 class

Go on - and report back!

First post Greecefan?
I bet you know the Kumon marketing department really well.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9390294/Schools-Minister-rote-learning-vital-to-boost-maths-skills.html

To all the teachers on here...

Hi there not sure if this link still is okay to feedback on as I am a relatively new poster. So, DD has been 'doing' kumon Maths for past month or so. She can now do the following:

1. Recognise written numbers from 1-30.
2. Hold a pencil
3. Know the numbers out of sequence too (I think some people were saying kumon is rigid and therefore does not reach this).
4. She is really into the numbers now. Sees them everywhere.

Negatives

1. Sometimes I still think that it is expensive for learning just 1-30 (Gbp 50). But the positive is the discipline of doing 15 mins per day. We would not have consistently sat down with dd for 15 mins to do math. Kumon forces us to do just this.
2. We have to turn up at the centre at least once very week.
3. Maybe I though I would get more for my money like simultaneous equation solving for 4 year olds rather than just learning 1-30!!!

Overall I the k it's good. It's a useful thing for discipline for parents and kids if u can afford the time, effort and money. I don't regret it. But u have to go in having the right expectations!!

Hope this is useful feedback.

I think that maths is being taught to a low level in the UK. My dd asks me 'why do I need to know this?' and I say well when you do understand it you do, you just know it.

There are two different teaching styles, knowledge/ learning, I prefer knowledge, nothing against the learning, just for my children I would prefer knowledge.

*So, DD has been 'doing' kumon Maths for past month or so. She can now do the following:

1. Recognise written numbers from 1-30.
2. Hold a pencil
3. Know the numbers out of sequence too (I think some people were saying kumon is rigid and therefore does not reach this).
4. She is really into the numbers now. Sees them everywhere.*

I would be interested to see where she's at in 6m-1yr. My 4yo is, I think, a pretty average kid but he has been able to do that stuff since at least 3, counting to 100 since 2, and can tell the time. It's just through conversation. I think maybe you're paying a price for your insecurities.

tread my dd can 'count' up to a 100 too and can tell the time. Kumon does not teach how to tell the time. Not so far anyway. With kumon, she can now put in numbers in a sequence if there are any missing in numbers ranging from 1-30. Recognise that if there is a one before a three, it's calle thirteen. So far things have been easy But we are taking things slowly.
I too would like to know how well this goes after 6 months and then 1 year. Compared to if we had not done this.
We are getting much more out of the 'discipline' and increase in concentration span than anything else at the moment.

I'm going to speak in favour of Kumon, it does work in some circumstances.

Before I get shouted at, I'm also a secondary trained Maths teacher and have also taught specialist "catch-up" maths in KS2. Both my children studied Kumon for two very different reasons. My elder child from yr2 on the advice of an Ed.Psysch as he needed to see the work (rather than the ridiculous amount of verbal only in his school) and repetition. My youngest started the week after her 4th birthday because she ASKED to start and really enjoyed it as Nursery maths was way below her ability and she was bored. I did stop once they had covered all the basic arithmetic up to fractions and they both now thank me for making them do it.

I also now see working as a teacher that many pupils do have excellent problem solving skills and can tell you verbally how to solve a problem but sadly cannot reach the correct answer or are frustratingly (for themselves) slow due to poor basic arithmetic, including times tables. I have met many children who are really being held back in maths once they reach yr 6/7 by their lack of basics. Remember they still need to do a lot of arithmetic without a calculator in KS3 and a calculator is only as good as the person pressing the keys, you still need to be able to estimate the answer.

Some Primary Schools are good at getting children to do fast accurate arithmetic but sadly many are not and often it is the children in the lower ability ranges that suffer the most, repetition can really help in some cases. At the school my children were at the numeracy teaching was terrible, shortly after stopping Kumon we moved county and had they not done Kumon even my bright child would of struggled to keep up at her new school.

I also had a friend whose child had SEN and the Kumon centre did adapt the work for them, the SEN child made the most amazing strides. The centre we used never did hard sales to peoples houses, they preferred you to come to the centre and talk to other parents whose children were using them.

My children also did baking, swimming, reading and a lot of time using their own imagination playing on their own.

Lordy me, your child is 4, OP, and you are paying £50 per month for her to be taught numbers 1-30.

I'm not going to wade in and tell you what my 4 year-old Dd, also starting reception in September can do, but I honestly think you are mad to be paying that money. If you are paying for the discipline of it as you say, do it at home, have a "Learning time" when you devote 15 minutes to stuff like that, you do not need to pay someone.

leftthehighlands, thanks for sharing your experience. That's what I am planning to do. Give it up once dd reaches a certain level where her basics are solid. Was your experience same as mine in the early days?

They do not start all children from the beginning of the Kumon programme. They tested her and despite being only just 4 years old she started several levels higher and she went through levels very quickly to start with. The whole point of Kumon is that the child progresses at a speed that is appropriate for them and not a class of 30 children. My younger child was very able, I had already done a lot at home with her, and she thought the sheets were fun and was totally bored at the Nursery class in school. She had taught herself to read age 3, probably from sitting on my knee from a baby listening to her older brother.
Show me an average state school that will teach yr1 column subtraction & addition, yr 2 up to x12 tables with long multiplication and division. There are some children who do maths because they want to not because they are forced. It was also a lot cheaper than sending the children to private school which was the alternative at the time.