How can the ofstead inspector possibly know this?

[learnandsay]

In our 2011 ofstead report the lead inspector writes that when starting school the children's abilities and levels of understanding are wide ranging but better than in most schools..

How can he possibly know the abilities of most starting children in most schools? Isn't that statement unknowable, misleading and unhelpful?

Well, IME (3 children) the targets of 10, 20, 100 make perfect sense.
Children tend to count to 10 first.
10-20 is awkward as it doesn't follow the normal pattern else it would be onety one, onety two etc.
30-100 is the year 1 target and there is a natural pattern formed.

I would agree with LMG - where I have SEN children in Year 3 who cannot count to 100, they are usually absolutely fine up to 10, and then from 20 - 100 using the pattern (though many say thirty as threety, as that follows logic). The teens numbers are the real sticking point, so having up to 20 as something separate does ensure focus on that.

However, while knowing number bonds to 10 is critical and is an essential scaffold to easy calculation later on, 'number bonds to 20' are not (knowing that 3 + 6 = 9 means that doing 13+6 or 73+6 or whatever are equally valid next steps. there is not the same 'disjoint' around the teen numbers in calculating as there is when counting.

Still not sure where the view that having a target holds children back fits in though. DS left reception able to read numbers up to a million, able to add and subtract 3 digit numbers, and able to count through, add and subtract negative numbers - his teacher simply provided what was necessary to keep him moving through these stages (an occasional listening ear, whiteboard, pen, blackboard and chalk, various sources of numbers such as football tournament charts) and observed and documented his progress...it's what teachers do....

"This is a little bit off topic, but why would EYFS specify addition and subtraction to 10 or later to 20, when children using software simply answer the question"

Unfortunately being able to answer the question on "test the toad" doesn't really address the all of expectations of EYFS where the child is expected to demonstrate understanding of mathematical concepts and number operation relationships

But I get the impression that once a child has understood the concept of counting she wants to count all of the sea shells or all of the raisins not just twenty of them."

Is your school any good? DO you trust the teacher? IS your DD progressing well? Can't help feeling that there must be more to this than meets the eye as you seem to have a very limited expectation of what and how schools teach.

What benchmarks the children are assessed against is not necessarily what the teacher expects them to achieve which should be different according to each childs abilities.

DS (year 1) can count in 3's way past 100 given the time, entirely led by his teacher because he enjoys it. The teacher won't stop them doing something they enjoy just because they've reached the goals set, they will observe and record what they can do.

I don't think learnandsay's child has started school yet Kewcumber

DS's year R teacher was well aware that he likes telehanders and other farm machinery because he TELLS people exactly what they are when he sees them in pictures, small world, ride on toys etc.

"its not a tractor, its a JCB telehandler, no that one not a JCB, that a manitou, its red... etc."
If a 4 year old REALLY likes something they do tend to let the world know about it.

How old is your child, learnandsay?

the Early Years Profile which is started in Nusery and completed in Reception, is based on showing when children know things, like, can recognise their own name, can fasten clothes, can count consistently and recognise numbers when shown out of sequence, can identify letter out of order etc, teachers fill this in saying when the child was able to do the acitivity so you can get Autumn 1 or 2, spring 1 or 2 and summer 1 or 2 relating to the half terms within the term. This information is input on to a spread sheet and sent to the LA inthe summer term almost like exam results. This is called the Foundation Stage profile and the earlier a child can achieve the 9 or so things under each of the 5 major categories, of literacy, numeracy etc then the higher score they get .

This information is what is used to see what level's children start school at and as it's broken down to half terms I think they are safely able to say what starting abilities every child in the UK has , which is what you wanted to prove they couldn't do, but I think they probably can.

Having fifteen lego blocks and taking away seven isn't quite the same as test the toad because the BBC website game marks your answer and has a delightful animation.

Not sure I completely agree that it is better to learn from a computer than real life. DS1 learnt his times tables on the beach. We found a rock pool and lots of pebbles. He threw 2 pebbles in, then 2 more etc to learn the 2 times table. Way more satisfying to be throwing pebbles in a pool with splashes, than answering multiplication questions on a computer. I can safely say that DS REALLY understands multiplication. He knows that 52=(32)+(22) etc as opposed to just knowing that 52=10, but not really knowing 'why'.

And is there a difference between test the toad working on numbers up to an arbitrary limit of 15, than the EYFS using 10 or 20?

learnsay, is there an underlying ishoooo for you here?