Yr 1 Phonics test - what if your child can already read?

[MayaAngelCool]

Can we have them exempted from the test? From what I gather, such a child is likely to fail the test as it includes lots of 'fake' words written phonetically. Children who can read well are thought to be likely to try to guess what real word these words are similar to, rather than saying what they actually are, and thus fail the test.

The Pearson Phonic Test information conveniently avoids saying anything about this problem. Anyone know?

IME children often enjoy reading pretend words.

Whybon earth would a child be intimidated at any age by being asked to try to a list of the names of aliens- which is what happens in our school.

Yes, children shouldn't be stressed, but they will pick up if the adults are .

But why would adults be stressed? Teaching children to read is absolutely fundamental. I imagine that any teacher would be very stressed if any children in their care left primary school after 6 years with low literacy skills.

I've read the whole thread, and i can see where the 'trick' words are mentioned, but what are the 'real' words they'll be tested on?

No one knows any of the words that will be used in the actual check real or otherwise yet. They will be in schools next month.

Here is a link to the explanation and specimen list published by DofE. It gives examples of the type of words which may be included.

*xTonixxx I don't actually think this is a bad thing as I believe (only my personal opinion) that the expected standards of what our children should be able to do in many schools is quite low.

It doesn't mean that children will be capable of achieving higher levels but it does give teachers the scope to extend the brighter children surely?

oh i seee now, thank you

lou2321

The standards expected of reception aged children isn't low. The reason I say this is because although nurseries will teach phonics etc the leap from nursery to reception is still a big one. Children need to adjust to sitting down at tables etc and If I'm honest most reception children I've come into contact with arrive are still clueless as to what a knife and fork are.

In my experience about 99% of the schools children (the school I worked in up until last August) come from one specific nursery. The nursery now has to meet higher standards too; Last year the intake of children arrived with "grades" that met the higher standards, only problem is the children weren't actually capable of what was recorded... yet they are still expected to meet the new set of targets.

The pre-school my boys went to ensures that the step up to reception is fairly smooth and works with the YR teachers to achieve that. The children are encouraged to sit together at snack time and are required to sit on the mat at story time (split into age appropriate groups for stories etc). There is plenty of free play but the structured stuff is impemented slowly ready for school.

I guess what I meant is that I would expect all children entering YR to be able to sit at a table properly, use cutlery (maybe not cutting), be able to listen properly for approx 10 mins and also be able to get dressed etc. I am not really critisising schools but maybe a generally low expectation from parents etc, the number of children who cannot even get themselves dressed at 4 or 5 is unbelievable.

I said to my friend once that DS was messing me around in the mornings before pre-school, he wouldn't get dressed when I asked him. She couldn't believe I expected him to do that. My response was that he's able to do it and whilst I am happy to help him, he should be able to follow instructions and do as he's asked. Of course i got him dressed sometimes but there was no reason for him not to do it. Her DS was nearly 5 and she got him dressed every day.

Do you think children should be able to do these basic things in YR or that it is too much to expect? I'm not having a go, its a genuine question?

All Nurseries work with YR R in transition etc but it doesn't mean children are actually prepared for school.

I don't think it is the schools that have a low expectation of parents, sadly the government has pretty low expectations of parents which is why whatever is going wrong with society becomes a new initiative that should be added to the curriculum...

Your expectations aren't too high. The majority of children are unable to use cutlery and dress themselves when they start school. I've worked in a year 2 class where a child's mother came in to get him dressed for P.E.

Yes you are probably right, it is a shame it is like that though as I am sure with the right nuturing it would be the majority of children being able to do those things instead.

That is so sad re that Y2 child, kids can be very mean so that is just asking for trouble!

I find it shocking that school age children are unable to do the simple things like eat properly or dress themselves. A school is there to educate a child not to bring them up and the teachers should be able to focus on learning instead of making up for things that should be taught at home.

Houseworkprocrastinator I totally agree however if the parents haven't taught these skills then I am guessing the school has no choice?

I was shocked when I first starting helping at the preschool how many children were about to go up to school and couldn't actually put their coats on (not doing them up, just putting them on). The pre-school have improved their practices on encouraging independance over the last few years but they can't be completely responsible for these things and unfortunately there are parents that just don't bother.

I agree too.

It seems a fair few parents think schools are for teaching their children how to dress themselves, how to feed themselves, how to tie their shoe laces etc.

Some parents do seem totally unaware rather than lazy; like parents who send their children to school wearing tights on PE day or my personal favourite, sending a child with a tin of soup for packed lunch.

I can't believe they'd send a tin of soup, that is unbelievable although I have forgotten spoons for yoghurts in the past and once had a coconut flavoured yoghurt sent home as someone had a nut allergy?????!!!!!!!

When the parent was asked how they thought their child was going to eat a tin of soup ie. do you really think we have time to send a member of staff to kitchen to microwave your child a meal... the reply was "With a spoon".

If you don't laugh you will cry.

Child of the 70's here who can vividly recall the upset of doing a reading test to the headmistress at the age of 6,and reading or-chest-ra (like treasure chest) and being so upset that was wrong and I wasn't allowed to read any more of the words, that I still remember it now- probably 40yrs to the day later.

OK It's not blighted my academic progress (probably LOL) but I'd like to think events like that weren't ironed into kids memories so hard.

I hope that the year 1 child who gets orchestra and reads it like I did is allowed to pass - or at least allowed to read to the end of the list !

I doubt if any of the words in the Y1 test (nonsense or otherwise) are as hard as orchestra. The words/sentences? on your test got progressively harder in order to test your reading age which, if you got that far, would have been much higher than 6. Perhaps you would have been less traumatised if the thing had been explained to you properly.

Many schools have actually been doing non-real word reading for quite a long time.

There are many examples of treasure chest type games available to download for example.

Only this week I have been doing alien words with my Y1 children - I have 60 different aliens with speech bubbles, all introducing themselves with their names (all non real words) - and this is not the first year I have used such resources.

As I said before, most children I have worked with quite enjoy the non-word reading games we play.

The orchestra example sounds more like a reading age test - if you get 2 or 3 consecutive words incorrect then the test stops, and the point you stop at gives a reading age (as in a decoding reading age, doesn't take into consideration comprehension, etc)

Most Y1 children who have been taught systematically with phonics wouldn't have any difficulty with orchestra (they will know that ch can represent as in Christmas and to try the alternatives to see which sounds right) and even if they do get it wrong no one will stop them or even tell them they are wrong during the test... hopefully the teacher will make a note to teach it in the near future)

Blimey - 60 non-real words! I personally would question if that was a good use of children's and teacher's time. And will it really make better readers of them than not doing it? Surely time should be spent expanding their vocabulary, looking at the structure of how 'real words' are written and lots of practice in reading, writing and using them.

If orchestra was in a decoding test, and followed the same rule as 'non-words', the ch could be be pronounced ch (christmas) or ch (orchard), and both should be allowable. But if it was in a reading test, only reading it as 'orchestra' would be correct.

The government 'phonic check' is to my mind, rather muddled in that it mixes up 'reading' with 'decoding', and is in danger of making the teaching of reading 'non-word' obsessed.

Even Debbie Hepplewhite, great advocate for synthetic phonics, cautioned on this thread against the over-use of non-words: 'What I am not particulary happy about is the proliferation of the use of non-words in general reading instruction. I don't think there is any need for it in that, as I said earlier, a cumulative bank of words provides a huge number of words for learners to read - and many of these will be obscure to the young learner or the learner for whom English is not the first language. Thus, these learners are getting plenty of sounding out and blending practice without the need for non-words.'

zebeedee - I don't do all 60 at any one time; just a handful. And as part of our phonics time, along side doing individual sounds, reading real words, writing sentences, etc. Having the 60 just means that we don't do the same ones over and over again, so less chance of memorising them. The ones I have made cover phases 2-4 as my group are not yet at phase 5 onwards.