4 year old in trouble at school

[PrinceCorum]

OK so this is our first child at school and I have no idea how tough schools these days are on discipline. Our 4 year old, 5 soon, is in reception class in a catholic primary school. We are having a few anger management issues at home with him and these appear to be spilling out a bit to school now, with him having his name put in a book kept in the class that records bad behaviour. He seems to be struggling with his emotions and temper at the moment, but he is only 4. When other kids wind him up sometimes he stays calm, sometimes he reacts with anger. I'm just wondering what teachers expect of reception class kids - are they given any slack in terms of managing their emotions or are teachers expecting little angels? Should I be worried that my son now has 4 entries in some kinf of 'behaviour book' as ot's called? Of course we talk to him about trying to control his temper and not lashing out at other kids. Some things I understand why he would go in a behaviour book - so he kicked a child who wound him up. fair enough, that's bad. But other things - he threw a pencil... I went to primary school in the 1970s and I saw a lot worse than throwing a pencil - seems a bit harsh to record something like that in a book ?! The school states it has a zero tolerance of violence but four year old boys do sometimes play rough and lash out when angry and trying to deal with their emotions.

Could any reception class teachers comment? Is my son,a ged 4, very unusual in having a few anger management issues and occasionally hitting other kids in his class at play time? Should I be worried that the school might try to exclude him? Does this happen to reception kids? What are the expectations for 4 year old boys?

I have a ds who is 4 nearly 5yo in reception. He has a behavioural book and it's really helped him. He now knows that he can't come out going "I've been good all day, can we buy an ice cream" if it's written in his behavioural book he's refused to do what he was told.

It's not unusual to have a few anger management for boys in year R (I'm told) but you do want them to know that it's wrong and how to deal with it.

When he had a bad behavioural reported on then I will discuss with him what he should have done. "Why did you throw the pencil?" "What would have been better to do?" He now knows what he should do, even if he sometimes (but increasingly rarely) doesn't do it.

It's also helpful because you can identify flash points. With him initially the flash points were lunch time (he has hearing issues and the loud playtime noise gets too much for him-that's a reason, not an excuse) and so he now is able to ask the dinner ladies to let him go away for a few minutes and that usually helps. Another flash point was last thing in the afternoon-he was very tired. I'd notice that often those were the days he would be asking to go to bed as soon as he was home. And the other flash point was an ear infction. School can now identify an ear infection by his behaviour, which is great for him.

Throwing a pencil is potentially a big deal, could put out an eye.

Hard to say if OP's school has unfair expectations. BUT, I can say that behaviour books are not the end of the world, and that most young boys will have behaviour issues at one point or another in their school years. So it's just something to work on when it arises.

I expect you know all this: might be helpful to review his sleep/eating/routine to see if there's anything you can do to make him better able to cope with uncomfortable emotions.

In general schools are not extremely strict on discipline.

Whether your school is or not is anyone's guess.

But it sounds like his behaviour is a problem at school, and it is quite right that they are dealing with it now when he is 4.

@ragged: I'm not condoning throwing a pencil but I am questioning the purpose of recording this in a book

I guess I would have liked to have been told in advance what the hell this behaviour book was, how serious it is if my DS's name is entered in it, whether he is one of a vrey small number in the class who get entered into it or whether it is common to get an entry. At present I have little context to help me process the significance of being told "your son's name was put in the behaviour book"

Everything in your child's school career will be recorded. Good and bad. Every policy, strategy & learning objective, too. Along with what he actually does & doesn't do. Paperwork paperwork paperwork! Makes you seriously wonder how they have any time for actual teaching & nurturing.

I think you need to ask those questions at your school, but I'd be shocked if his is one of very few names in this book.

Um, very very few things are recorded in your school file.

This almost certainly won't be

If they tell you he's misbehaving in class you need to take it seriously. End of.

That does not mean you need to punish him. But you do need to understand his behaviour in class is not acceptable, and school are not happy with him - and then you need to decide what you want to do about it.

Excellent advice here already.

You need to work alongside the school. This may not be what you intend, but you do sound as if you are trying to minimise your son's behaviour. As has been said, throwing a pencil could be a very big deal indeed if it hits another child in the face. I am sure that the school's approach to your son's behaviour is geared to his being only 4 - you haven't mentioned, for example, that there has been any draconian punishment such as missing playtime - but these anger management problems do need to be tackled and soon. Cutting him some slack around kicking another child or throwing things can never be an option.

I think that the school are trying to deal with the situation. Having read your OP and the later ones I am slightly confused as to what the behaviour book entails. Many of the later post seem to assume that it is the type of book that comes home so that you can see how his behaviour has been each day. This would seem a good idea as you can support the school and your son by knowing the facts. However your OP makes the book sound as if the teacher has a book she records bad behaviour in and keeps at school. If it is this type I would question its usefulness.

Many classrooms have all the children's names starting under the smiley face at the beginning of the day and then bad behaviour means they move to the sad face. Each day starts anew! Whereas with the teacher's book it means the name and misdemeanour is there for ever and is not necessarily communicated to the parent.

@goinggetstough - the "behaviour book" stays in class and is for the whole class as I understand it, not one per student, but again, its purpose has never been fully explained. They do have a smiley face equivalent based on rainbow, sun, clouds etc.

Our reception has a behaviour book that isn't seen by parents. Its partly for staff to get to see a pattern of behaviour as well. Like a previous comment - is it always at lunch, on specific days, same children involved.
Its is used on an escalating scale - there are warnings first, then time out (age appropriate 5 mins - not a whole lunchtime) , then after 2 sessions of time out in 1 day, the behaviour book is used.
So it may that there have been several incidents during that day prior to going in a behaviour book.

if he's regularly hitting, kicking and throwing things, then I would absolutely expect these incidents to be monitored and written down. If you were the parent of the child being kicked, what would you expect the school to do?

Some record of such ongoing behaviour is to be expected, in case the behaviour escalates, or doesn't diminish as he matures. Hopefully, as he's only little, it will, and that will be an end of it. But school have a duty to other pupils to keep an eye on such behaviour.

I don't object to the school noting the behaviour but I would have liked more feedback from them about the behaviour book system they operate.

I was also hoping some reception class teachers on here might comment on how unusual such behaviour is and how best I can work with the school to reduce it.

Sounds to me like they are the sorts of questions you should be asking directly to his teacher.

They're probably still all tidying up, am sure they will be home soon! I would talk to his teacher too, find out if they feel it is a big problem or one they are on top of. The bring home behaviour books do sound like a good idea though, so you're all working together, maybe suggest that to them. Also there is a saying 'don't accept from a 4 yr old behaviour you don't want in your 14yr old'. We had children in my junior school who threw things and fought, but it didn't enhance my learning experience there.

Hopefully will be some teachers along soon.

Having anger management issues is not unusual, but neither is it acceptable.
The school will be dealing with it, and they are communicating that to you.

If you need clarification on how that's happening, and what it means for you and your child, then you need to talk to the teacher about it.

I would be pleased that his behaviour was being noticed and dealt with in a consistent way, rather than going amiss in a class of 30 chn kicking and throwing. Like a previous poster said, if it was your child being hit or kicked you would want to know that it had been dealt with. Of course he's not a unique case and it will depend to an extent on the type of school and intake - I would expect to have 3-4 chn in a class with issues of that sort or worse, but then I work in an inner-city non religious school.

Go and speak to his teachers. I'm sure they'll want to work with you and will be happy to go into more detail. They may suggest a home-school book to let you know more about his day - the good as well as the bad.

Kicked a child, threw a pencil and hits other kids.
I have helped in a P1 class, and I would say this behaviour is usually limited to one or two children in a typical class, and the teacher is correct to deal with it now before it escalates and your son gets a reputation as a disruptive child - with teachers, children and other mums.

Sorry - not what you wanted to hear, but you did ask.

The best thing to do is to have no tolerance for bad behavior at all, no excuses, no exceptions.

I am a former Reception teacher, and I have to say your posts are coming across as slightly defensive, even if this isn't what you intend.

If I were you, I would ask if I could speak to the teacher after school and ask him/her how your son is doing, especially socially and emotionally, in this case; ask for clarification about the behaviour book; talk about any obvious triggers for when his behaviour worsens; and ask how you can support the school in helping him to improve his behaviour. FWIW, if he was really problematic, I think they would have had you in by now, but you do need to show that you will work with the school and you won't make any excuses for your DS.

if he's regularly hitting, kicking and throwing things, then I would absolutely expect these incidents to be monitored and written down. If you were the parent of the child being kicked, what would you expect the school to do?

Absolutely agree. My dd came home last week, having been kicked by a boy. I knew it would be one of two boys in her class, which it was. Both are consistently hurting other children.

It is not normal for a child to be consistently throwing things and hurting other kids at this age. You should a) be taking it very seriously b) working with the school on teaching your son about acceptable behaviour c) addressing any issues that lie behind the aggression.

I do think boys struggle with the discipline of school, and it is tough on them at this age, though. If you can I would take him to the park for half an hour before school, so he runs off some physical energy.

What do they do in class about modelling dispute resolution and expression of feelings using words? In other words, is it all rules about what you can't do without input as to what they should do instead when certain situations arise, with accompanying 'this is how we resolve disputes' or 'this is what we do when we are feeling angry/frustrated' scenarios presented.

Sometimes a book is kept so that a teacher has an objective way of looking at a student and isn't relying on one or two incidents to form a bad impression.

The OP can manage her 4 year old child's angry outbursts safely at home, but his behaviour is causing a real problem in class. She knows little about the events: the ending of a few incidents, eg 'he threw a pencil'.

I can't see a home based pep talk changing much; the behaviour obviously isn't acceptable and needs to be modified, but someone who wasnt there, trying to do that several hours later, from minimal information, in a different setting, without input into staff actions or how the classroom is run....

Google 'ABC' charts and see if the teacher and you can use the same approaches, as consistency will improve things faster than if you use different ones. If this doesnt help, ask the school to get outside advice promptly if they aren't succeeding in breaking the classroom behaviour pattern.

The other thing which might be useful is a chat with the old nursery teachers.

When ds1 had similar issues, his keyworker was shocked because ''We've never had those problems". But talking to her, it quickly emerged that they'd often applied their 'early years' toddler-tantrum expertise... and of course the school teachers were used to larger, 'more sensible' dc, whereas ds1 (once in pre-meltdown mode) was acting and understanding like an 18-24 month old.

A 'naughty boy' and 'it all comes from the home' are labels worth actively avoiding. Even in the occasional case where the only underlying cause is an acquired bad habit, judgemental labels just make change harder. I should say, ds1 now has some diagnosed special needs, and the staff do their best to accommodate these, which helped the school outbursts.

YOu really need to go in (make an appointment, so you know the teacher has time to talk to you) and talk to the teacher herself about all of this. There is no 'standard' for all Reception classes, however, as others have said, it is good practice to make a note of incidents if a child is regularly doing things that could hurt someone. That way you can look for patterns, triggers, etc., and see if you can help work out a way of altering the unwanted behaviours. You also have a log, if it esculates, and, of what is being done to help prevent it being repeated.