DD's Yr 2 Homework, where does "involved" end and "pushy" begin?

[treadonthecracks]

Just had a horrible hour and a bit trying to help DD do research and answer some questions on animals for her homework. Should only have been about half an hours work I'd say. We are only half way through. Planning to resume it after breakfast tomorrow.

She won't concentrate, is cheeky, being silly and messing about, writing in her scruffiest writing. All to wind us (me and DH) up. It works beautifully, we try to remain patient but end up shouting. She spent half an hour in her room so we could all calm down.

I have read many posts about leaving them to get on with it, but she needed help to research this. Being pushy will just demotivate them. I've also read reports and such about parents being "involved" making all the difference to their education. Can anyone explain?

I am planning to ask her teacher about this, and have told DD I've put a note in the homework diary telling the teacher how she's behavied. She is teachers pet at school, but even the threat of the note didn't motivate her.

Ah, I've had to just lock us up until DS put something down on paper that was roughly a correct response to the homework assignment. Might take an hour of him stropping about it before the first legible word hit the paper.

I don't care about scruffy writing, as long as it's close to legible. I replace paper if they rip it.

You should not shout, they can shout, but you just watch & wait & when they seem calm ask again if they'd like to resume work. Do not bring your emotions into the room.
"Research": It depends exactly what's asked for, but I try to reach for real books if we have relevant ones, rather than go online for info. If we do go online, I might type the search phrases to speed things up, but I'd try to get them to click & choose what info to plagiarise copy down. We often talk thru what wording to use, he chooses & he writes it down after we've discussed it.

Our instrux say to give whatever support child needs to complete the task, but all writing must be from their own hands.

I would have been a long way into bribery long before this stage.

Talk about they are finding out about and get her to dictate the answers as you type. (I'm assuming it's the writing part that's causing the problem!)

We start off with bribery! We usually say we have an hour to do the homework, and once it's done she can go on the laptop (so the quicker she does it the more time she has on the laptop and moshi monsters). No laptop at all today as homework not done

I absolutely agree don't bring your emotions but find that so hard - she just pushes and pushes until we end up cross. This time it was being cheeky and rude (mini teenager style) and DH getting cross. She will deliberately write the wrong thing, scribble on the page and so on. I suppose send her to the stairs/her room before we start shouting and accept that it's going to take most of our weekend to get the homework done. Or send the homework back unfinished, writing at the bottom that she was unable to complete it after 1 1/2 hours. It seems like an opportunity missed.

She loves writing and will write stories pages long. I go to wake her up in the morning and find her writing away! She's been talking about the animal topic, and seems interested in it.

I remember it well, my dd was HELL in year 2 about homework. She became far too powerful in the family, literally ruining weekends with her strops about it all.

I wanted to regain control and set up a system where I would say to her, I am available to help with your homework this morning between 10-11 (or similar) At 10.00 I would remind her about it and tell her that this was her ideal moment because she could have as much of my attention and support as she needed. For the first few weeks, she would refuse, yell I'm not ready, not yet etc etc. I would sit at the homework table for that hour do my nails, read a book etc and then move away at the end of the hour.

At some point during the weekend she would generally demand to know when she was going to do her homework, and I would tell her that I had no idea. The first weekend she didn't do it and I wrote a note to that effect in her hw diary (excellent disappointed reaction from the teacher) The next weekend she did it at the last moment, badly - again no reaction from me as it was not done within my hour. ABout week 3 she came like a lamb in my hour and we've never looked back!

Now she's in year 4 we agree a mutually convenient time together on Friday after school, she needs little help from me these days but I still sit with her and have a cup of tea and offer the odd spelling.

It's worth a try but only works if you are prepared to let her hand in a) rubbish or b) nothing for the first few weeks.

Good luck!

That is ingenious.

no learning will happen if she is not in the mood for the homework so leave it until ready and do not make a big deal over it.

This weekends task for y3 homework is to make a 3d model. Looking at Facebook it would appear that the parents are doing all the work here.

After several stressful weekends we took the "your homework, your problem" approach. If they don't do it then we will write in their book that they refused to do it. It only took one time and now it gets done with minimal fuss

Re degree of involvement, I will make myself available to talk it through, help with spelling etc. I will suggest where to look etc but I won't do it for them.

DH teaches ks4 and has too many students who cannot work independently as someone has always done it for them

A 3D model for year 3 in a weekend ? That is crazy week ends should be for family time. How will making a 3D model enhance their learning which is what homework should be about

My persona rules are that I will encourage my children to do their primary school HW, I will even help them if necessary but I will not force them to do it. If they don't want to to it, they can take the consequences at school instead.

Life got much more pleasant once I made that decision :) I do explain my stance to the teachers and that I am happy for my child to be kept in at lunch/break to finish what they have refused to do at home. IMO it is better they learn about consequences at Primary rather than Secondary school.

Similar policy to SoupDragon.
If they needed my help they asked but they had to take responsibility for their HW.

Febreezeyourjeans, I am definitely pinching your idea! Starting today!

Tbh if a child comes in with research homework typed by a parent, I'm not bothered. The point of the homework is finding out about the topic, not being able to write. Most research homework will be used for a writing task in the classroom anyway.
As long as they've talked about it, I'm happy.

I don't really think you are coming across as pushy. If a child is given homework that they can't possibly do without considerable adult help, what choice do you really have? Of course, you want the homework to look its best, but it is your adult standard of best rather than a 7-year olds.

Her behaviour over this homework is symptomatic of having to do work that may be too hard and definitely takes too long. It is not naughtiness that needs to be reported to the teacher - and I doubt teacher will care anyway.

In the grand scheme of things, I doubt if this homework is important at all.

Thank you all for the replies.

We sat down with one hour ahead of us this morning. We had a chat first, about the easy way and the hard way to do the homework. I reminded her that any time left in the hour she could have the laptop for. I stated if it wasn't done in the hour it would be handed in as it was with a note from me at the bottom explaining she had not finished it because she wouldn't concentrate.

I sat next to her while she finished the project and her french club homework in 12 minutes

I'm afraid she was being naughty yesterday Cecily - you'd agree if you'd seen her. She finished it in a flash today. I take your point it's not that important - I need a new strategy and to calm down

Febreeze and Soup dragon - I am getting ready to let her hand in nothing. We cannot go on like this and I know you are right. I don't like it but it's got to be done. I'm going to warn the teacher.

Imnotmymum - I know you are right and she won't get anything done if she's not in the mood. If I let her get away with yesterdays behaviour (i.e did not have the consequence of no laptop) she would be like that everytime we attempt homework. Do you have any suggestions on finding the time to get it done when she's in the mood? How do you organise it? My idea is to get it finished off on a saturday morning, so Sunday is homework free and a family day. Many of my friends leave it to the last minute and the DC get it done under pressure. I can see the attraction, but not sure it's the greatest habit to be in.

Febreeze said a mutually agreed time - I will talk to her about it.

I am aware that getting stressed and shouting is not helping at all and is counterproductive. She's only 6 and us getting all 'pushy" may have the effect of putting her off doing homework when she's older.

Good luck with your model Tory - I know what you mean about the parents doing all the work, we aim to let her do it, but lots of her homework is "shared learning" which the idea is to do together.

Mumblesmum - well she's certainly spent some time on it and talked about it, that's for sure

We, apparently, are being rather 'hands-off' with Yr2 homework - for instance when a picture comes home which we're meant to discuss for 'the big write' we have a discussion - but if he's clearly not interested in discussing it I don't persist - I point out first that if we don't discuss it he'll have to do it without us having discussed it - and he quite often opts for that (and in fact his teacher thought we were doing more on that, so we clearly don't need to worry too much on that, so we're not).

However, he did fill a sheet in with cursory information and very bad handwriting and we rubbed it out and did it again with me helping a bit, but with him doing all the writing and talking about the answers - so he will be much happier handing it in and its now acceptable rather than barely adequate in my view.

I know what you are going through OP, my weekend used to be exactly the same. However, in the last few weeks I took control and things are starting to change, but I had to start to give her responsibility (Yr2) and take a step back.

After a big meltdown three weeks ago, I very calmly said 'fine, if that is your decision, I will write a note to Miss and explain that you didn't want to do it....'. Note was written and I had a quick word with teacher. Next week, when I suggested the note she reluctantly sat down and did work, which usually takes all of 15/20 mins - and she can do it easily, so not sure why the fuss!

Last week, I asked her when she would do her homework and she told me, at said time she said she didn't want to, I again said 'fine, I will let Miss know' and she paniced, 'no I will do it, please let me do it', we had a bit of messing, but not much, however, because I have also been reading a book about 'How to talk to children....', I didn't give one negative....I usually suggest she writes tidier, stops figiting, takes a bit more pride etc. etc., but instead tried to see the good bit ('you underlined that well')!!! It was all a lot stressful after all it is not my responsbility that she keeps her work neat - I had to let that feeling go!

This Saturday, I suggested we do some of the homework before we went out and she said no and we had a bit of negotiating, before we decided on Sunday morning and I told her I would be able to help her then, but not later, because I had ironing etc. etc. to do and we would like to go out somewhere too.

This morning, I reminded her about her homework and she had a little rant.... I said... I will be here for another five minutes, then you will have to do it on your own, she came straight away and sat like a model child and did all said homework! I didn't do anything, sat next to her with a coffee so was able to help if she asked, but did get up a few times and do other stuff, giving the impression I was still there.

What was great this morning, is that I didn't have to find things to be positive about - she started off with the neatest writing I have ever seen her do, she wrote joined up the whole thing (this is a big deal for dd), and at the end of it, we were both flying high on our success. I still can't quite believe it!

I know this isn't going to make you feel any better right now, but I wanted you to know you can turn it around in a very short time. I just hope it continues. The hardest point, was just letting go.

The only thing I would suggest is routine. Same place, same time (within reason) then its up to them to get it done. I'm around (usually cooking dinner) to help if needed but its their work. When she really does need help I always write in the planner than I've assisted.
Lets face it, teachers know when they've been given help.

I'm coming back to this one when I get home yr1 and yr3 home work to tackle still. I hate it!

depends how long you get to do homework with us we get homework Monday to be handed in Friday so we usually do on Monday finish on Thursday. If having a tired or busy week just let teacher know and usually OK if bit late. Try not to get stressed if she doing OK in school then not the end of world and be flexible. Sometimes we alter homework to suit mood. Type spellings instead of write, do the maths mentally etc>

KTk9 - It does make me feel better - it does! I have that book - faber/maslish isnt it, I will read it.

Stop - I am aiming for that routine, it sounds lovely.

Imnot we have from Friday to Tuesday, so the weekend is the logical time to do, in theory she's not tired. I like the sound of your flexible approach. It's not the be all at this age is it. She is doing well in school, complete teachers pet!

Thank you all, very glad I posted, thank you for the support.

The homework is done now, but I will update next week, let you know how my new laid back, not my responsibility approach goes.

Thanks for all the posts. Hubby and I explained to kids they had 1hr with our time and help and whatever wasn't done a note would be written to teachers. Worked a treat. No acting up this week. 7 year d even got going on her own!!! thank u

Hi treadonthecracks

Agree Fabreezeyourjeans and KTK9 have some great strategies.

I agree with several who have posted that they try and signal when that window of opportunity at help from Mum is available.

We also often remind our DDs that 'in our day' Mums and Dads really didn't help at all. They've checked with their grandparents who have agreed they really didn't do all that much - maybe listen to us read a book whilst they cooked - so DDs have absorbed that we don't think it's normal to have to help this much. It's helped them realise that they're lucky we do.

It sounds like it's homework for you rather than your DC.Why are they setting her homework she can't do independently?I'd be sending them in a pile of your ironing to do and see how the teachers like that!

As a parent, I am available for discussion about when to fit homework in, and am available (fairly remotely) at the time agreed. All responsibility for completion / quality / time spent is with my children. They take the flak in school if it's not done or badly done.

As a teacher, if homework is not done, there is 1 day's grace for a 1st offence ('you can take your book home again tonight and you can do the work there - or you can choose to do the work in school at break tomorrow'), straight to doing it at break if it's a repeat offender. Those children without literate adults at home get a specially-employed TA to work with them once a week to do the 'home jobs' we expect, like spellings, reading and homework, which those children otherwise find extremely hard to do.