Do your schools collect info on number of expected siblings.

[3duracellbunnies]

Our school say there is no point as people move, but there have been bulge classes, but going back to original PAN. I have friends with pfb who I know would like their child to go to our school, but realistically in ds yr (2014) I can think of nearly enough siblings to fill the school, do you think parents should expect schools to give an estimation of siblings so people can plan? If your school does, how does it know numbers?

Is community school, so think sibs are 3rd after looked after children and SEN, i.e. first big category.

Our school doesn't and I wouldn't expect them to provide an estimate because they have enough other things to do.

However the information would be useful to parents. This year our (unremarkable) school apparently had 60 siblings in a 90 intake leaving kids in catchment without a place. This seems a really high number to me but I don't know what it normally is. Some parents didn't put down a second choice and are now allocated all over the place rather than a place in the nearby ok school.

Our school doesn't take an inventory - but is well aware of which pupils have younger sibblings. Unless there is something in the water there, it is very unlikely a given year will have more than 50% siblings (one has to expect only children, youngest children [so no other siblings to come] and 'gap' years [younger siblings to come, but not just yet].)

Always use all your choices on school application forms and think them through! No good presuming you'll get into school A - it may just not work out that way.

There are alternatives, just further away or less popular. In a selfish way I am pleased because it means my children won't lose as much playground space etc, but I guess I feel that if people knew that there were at least 20/30 spaces gone, and I imagine when 2012 intake siblings come in the proportion will be higher, as most people in the school seem to have 2 yr gap between 1 +2. Over half children in yr2 are from families of 3 or more so siblings always form a high proportion. Think we'll be ok as dd1 got place not in bulge year and are close, told dh we can't move yet! Some schools here do seem to collect info, or maybe receptionists are just nosy!

Yes ours does but 1 it is a CofE school and require a seperate application to the school for siblings. (also one from church) it is also only a 15 intake so a bit more manageable laughs

I think they should put together this information. It's hardly rocket science.

At DD school (YR) I know of lots of siblings. Of a 45 entry, there are 30 siblings I know of for 2014 (DS entry)
I also know 3 sets of twins well within catchment.

I expect the catchment to be miniscule in 2014....

So people can be told two years in advance they have very little hope of a place, is that what you mean?

More fool anyone who doesn't put a 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice, IMO.

Never presume you will get your local school, especially if you live in an area of young families.

I would say that in a small school the parents are very aware of likely numbers entering Year R based on known younger siblings and first born at local nursery settings. In our case I think DS was probably number 14 or 15 out of 15 when he started some years ago and I know current Year R parents who were also very sure about who would be outside the PAN.

I think it is tough with first borns, but surely it is better to know that your chances are very slim, so if you did move there for the school, you have a chance to move again. Obviously situations change, but if you know that there are 28 siblings for 30 places and you live 0.5 miles away (in a town) then chances are you won't get a place. I know of about 14 between the two classes my girls are in, but don't know the yr1 siblings so much, you can only guess at their ages.

at the nursery ds attends there are children with siblings in the school who did not get in.

Wow, OK....I'm just very relieved all my DC have already started school, and we are pretty sure they will all go to our preferred senior school.

Where we are some people fall into the black hole, although talk of a new school / free school might address this, and I imagine this is one reason why LEA decided not to continue expanding our school plus people who can spend #3000 on kiddie birthday party might manage to go to indie school our side of the catchment there is an ok school, but our school is considered preferable by many parents, some of whom don't put down local school (duh). For them it might be useful to know their chances and encourage them to also list other school rather than be allocated the worse schools further away. There are also village schools etc around that people might investigate if they know that our school is a long shot.

It is also useful for us already in the school. Knowing that dd2 was going to be going into a year group twice the size of dd1's year I didn't put down another option as I knew that unless they made a mistake with my form which I checked 1001 times that she would get a place, being one of about 20 siblings in a class of 60. I will certainly put down a second choice school for ds though, and if other parents in the school are aware that say there are approximately 29 siblings (or more, eek) for 30 places, hopefully they will too, as a backup.

I would always say to put the school down if you really like it, as there may be bulge classes again, but I do think that maybe having that info available for all parents, rather than just those with mates in the school would help people to plan. Also for people trying to decide whether to move their child to the school nursery or not, a decision to be made in the near future for some parents. A realisation that the child may move to the nursery now, but that the chances of places in the school are less might mean than they leave the child in their current nursery/preschool if they are happy there, rather than move, and maybe move again. I certainly wouldn't move a pfb into a school nursery (unless it was nearby/convienient etc) if I thought chances of a place at that school were very slim.

We collect information from the families we know or suspect to have no literate adult (at least a fifth of each year's entry, often more), so that we can provide them with the appropriate forms (and someone to help fill them in) to apply for school places for younger siblings.

The first born in each of these families has often just turned up on the front doorstep of the school on or around the beginning of term, sometimes for reception but often later, without any kind of paperwork, and anything that we can do to help to avoid that is handy!

We help fill in the forms and they still can't be bothered to post them

Our local primary school had 22 siblings out of 30 a few years back (2000 ish??). Hugely over-subscribed and in a high-density housing area with other schools nearby. Even then there was a lot of back-stabbing about "out of catchment" siblings "stealing" places from "locals" when, in fact, virtually everyone was local.
It's not a new issue.

"We help fill in the forms and they still can't be bothered to post them"

We do that bit too...why spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar?

For a particular local ethnic community, we are 'their' school, and while we invest a lot of time and effort in their children and in helping the adults, they repay it with great loyalty and support.

Well we are a rural village school and the result is the child hasn't got a place in our school or any other school. I would imagine from past experience with older siblings mum just won't bother to send the child to school at all

Yes, because many of our parents expect to get in on the sibling rule and we need to stress that they need to get the forms in, cite sibling on the form, do all the things. The one year this wasn't done 7 people ended up ringing up our (then new) Head asking him to sort the mess out. We also have 'expression of interest' forms we give out to those who visit so we can remind them too. We wnat all those who wish to commit themselves to us to be able to do so, without getting caught in the system.

And, as a parent, the information was great. We fell between several schools, and got a great school with few siblings that year. We wouldn't have applied had we not known this, and that two nearer schools had exceptional numbers of siblings.

Is this just a question, or are you actively against this being done?

This particular parent was reminded , reminded again and better reminded and swore she had sent the form

I think DS's school keep tabs on it. Once he was allocated his place I had to fill out the paperwork for his school and they asked for siblings names and ages. No idea whether they have totted up all the numbers but they've had a heads up.

Adelaofblois, I am for it being done, when we applied for dd1 I just had the guesswork of a friend to go on as to how many siblings there were, based on playground rumours and totting up, there ended up being far more siblings than expected, but we did get a place. It is our closest school, but for some other people they might have other choices, and it is important to factor in when say this year the furthest person admitted on distance might be 0.6 miles away, applicants need to know that next year with a high proportion of siblings it won't be anything like that far. I know it might put some people off applying, but then like you, when there are few siblings in another school you get an opportunity to go somewhere you might not otherwise have considered.