Is it possible to appeal against the offered primary VA school?

[Waspie]

We didn't get any of our 4 preferred schools (the catchment school and three closest in distance to the house) and my son has been allocated a place at a VA Church of England school on the other side of town.

On what grounds can the council allocate a VA church school to my son? Can I appeal on the grounds that we are not Church of England?

Obviously we are going to go on the waiting lists for the other 4 schools plus another 2 others in the area but there is no point appealing on any of these as they are over subscribed and the criteria appears to be applied correctly.

Is there anything I can do on religious grounds, or any other, to reject this school?

Any advice? Thanks.

I should also add that not only are we not CofE, we aren't even Christian!

You don't appeal against a school, you appeal for one. Sorry, but there are no grounds on which you can go back to the LEA and say, we reject this school, give us a non-religious one. You can go on waiting lists, or even appeal for another specific school, though it sounds as if there are no grounds to do so. If you reject this offer, the LEA have no obligation to offer you anything else.

Having said that; have you looked round the school you've been given? As you have a place, I'm guessing their admittance policies don't require you to be religious, so it may well not be of an overly religious nature, and you are allowed to withdraw your child from religious assemblies if you wish.

Agree with PatriciaHolm. Just to add, the council will have allocated this school on the basis that it is the nearest school with places available. The fact that it is a faith school is not really relevant as far as admissions are concerned.

I agree that you should take a look at the school. You may find that it is less religious than local community schools.

Are you aware that all schools are required to have a daily act of worship, and to study RE?

You don't have to give a reason to reject the school, but they won't offer an alternative, it is up to you to find another place. Unless you intend to home educate I recommend that you accept, and if you wish, withdraw him from religious aspects, but you need to consider that this may mean no nativity play, no class assembly, so all his friends will take part but not him. Community or county schools still include all of the above, so wherever you go you are likely to come across the same issues.

Thank you all for replying. Unfortunately you've all confirmed what I thought when I read the literature on appeals sent by the LA.

Yes I'm aware that all schools have an act of worship but that's rather different from a school which is actually run, administered and has policy dictated by the church next door.

I was just rather surprised that the LA could designate a child to a school which does not operate to the LA's allocation criteria.

If nothing comes from the waiting list then we will have to find the means to send him to a prep school until a space at one of the other schools becomes available. A church school is simply unacceptable to me.

I will accept the school in the meantime of course, I don't want my son to fall off the LA's radar entirely.

Thanks again for replying.

Why are you accepting the place if the school is absolutely not an option? For all you know there is another child who put that school as one of their choices but hasn't got a place because you're holding it for no reason.

Waspie - A VA school follows the national curriculum on everything except RE. You are, of course, entitled to withdraw your son from RE and assemblies. Most faith schools are barely distinguishable from community schools. I would strongly recommend visiting this faith school before dismissing it out of hand. As I have already said, you may well find that it is no more religious than your preferred community schools.

Op has stated she is not Christian. Need she reveal whether she is another faith or atheist? She does not believe in Jesus Christ. Some of us don't!

In a truly diverse society that honestly respects differences, wouldn't her son have the right to attend a school where he is free to participate in assemblies - and need not suffer the embarrassment (which can be quite scarring) of being separated from everyone else during RE?

Ljny - in all state schools she would have to remove her child from assembly if she didn't want him to worship.

So, while I totally agree, state schools shouldn't be doing worship. But the fact is they all do. it's a legal requirement.

VA schools are not necessarily any more religious than any other school in the UK.

Agreed VA school may even be less religious than a 'community' school - my nearest school is VA CofE but one of the policies set by that church next door is that only 50% of places prioritize qualifying Christians, and in fact of 60 places last year only 10 went to Christian applicants. Much made of loving ethos rather than religion.
Conversely some community schools nearby have evangelical Christian heads who don't discourage teachers who spout religion.

Much as I'd love ds to attend a school where worship didn't happen, that would require HE - or in practice a school where Assembly is a singsong and uplifting story.

Ljny - no one has asked the OP whether she is athiest, agnostic or of another faith. It is clear that she isn't happy with a VA school, but we are just pointing out that in day to day school experience her son might not do things very differently in a community school. Church and state are intertwined thanks to Henry VIII. Maybe it is time for change, but it's not likely to happen before September and while many people are so desperate to get into church schools.

For OP I would check out the prep schools carefully too, as they too often have a Christian ethos, before you decide they are preferable to a VA school. Some things to ask about are: are all 'Christmas performances' religious in nature. Do children pray in class at begining/end of day, do they say grace at lunchtime. Do they/how often go to church during school time. In our commuunity school the answer would be no to all the above (nativity only in lower school). Maybe someone else will be able to suggest other points off difference to enquire about.

There is very little difference between a faith school and a none faith school.
You need to appeal FOR a school and never mention the against. Pick the school that you want and try and make a case.

I forgot about all the other stuff

My old community school:

• a reverend took an assembly once a month
• reverend was on the board of governors
• nativity play every year
• visited church 3 or 4 times a year

On top of 'the daily act of worship'

In a community school IndigoBell? Shows how much state and church are intertwinned. Our school is too far to walk to any churches on a regular basis!! :o

I was furious - after I'd found out. Which was of course far too late.

The first I knew about it was when I was invited to church to see my PFB perform in the nativity play

But I didnt realise the reverend gave assemblies for years.

GwendolineMaryLacey - I won't be holding a place that anyone else wants. This school is still undersubscribed. Also, all the advice on these threads is not to reject the place until you have something else lined up. I intend to take this advice.

Unfortunately I can't see a good reason to appeal for any of the six closest community primary schools - they are all oversubscribed and places have been filled by children in higher categories or in closer proximity.

I appreciate what you are saying prh47bridge and others who have said that a VA school may be less religious than a community school. I have no problem with christian values, after all we live in a judeo-christian society, but I would like for my son to be exposed to as many faiths/non-faiths as possible and then he can make up his mind when he is old enough. I don't want teachers indoctrinating my son into any particular faith. I have asked questions of the head teachers at all the schools I visited around how they dealt with the communal act of worship and RE. I also went to a prep school open day yesterday and asked the questions of the head there.

Personally I would like to see a total division of church and state but that's covered in lots of AIBU threads as well as in this section of MN

Thanks again to all who have taken the time to offer their advice and thoughts.

Waspie, my ds has been at a VC CofE primary for almost seven years, and hasn't been remotely indoctrinated, despite regular church assemblies.

wrt learning about other religions, I don't know that atheists make better RE teachers, iyswim. Also, religious families of all creeds often choose church schools over non-denominational ones so they can be more diverse.

All depends on the school I guess!

IndigoBell - and anyone else - does worship in school assemblies depend on your area? It wasn't a problem at my kids' inner London primary - admittedly that was long ago. But I don't think it happens at my grandchild's school either - she's in nursery, in north London.

She's currently in school admissions hell as she didn't get any of her 6 reception choices, but as far as I know, in the whole horrible admissions process, at least they didn't have to worry about religion!

One option now is to move out of London - which would be very difficult for many reasons, religion in schools may be another barrier. Sigh.

All schools in England have to have collective worship. See the education acts. There are no secular schools.

Interesting.

We have a lot of schools around here that are religious but non-christian. Also a lot of schools that are eg RC and have children of different faiths attending them. It can cause a lot of problems (I have friends who are non-christian and their children got the nearby RC school and one of the girls has experienced some bullying to do with her religion).

The whole thing is a bit of a shambles TBH.

I think all schools in the UK should be non-denominational. It causes too many problems having all these religious schools. having said that the free school thing will mean more religious schools, not less, and as they don't have to stick to the national curriculum they may be much more fundamentalist than existing religious schools.

waspie - The teachers at a faith school will NOT indoctrinate your son into their faith. Indeed, many of them may not be Christian at all. Your son will be exposed to other faiths in a faith school. The RE syllabus used in faith schools usually includes a good bit about other faiths.

There is very little difference and all will learn about other faiths in RE. All non denominational means is not connected to a particular branch. It is still Christian.

I have laboured the religious point because it is a particular hatred of mine (the enduring link between education and religion I mean).

However this school is undersubscribed because it is generally accepted to be awful. Usually the VA schools in my area can pick and choose their intake whereas this school is undersubscribed despite being allocated the 24 children that could not be offered one of their 4 preferences.

Not only is the school a shambles it is also miles away by safest walking route/driving.

These three issues make it unacceptable - I had grasped at straws and hoped that religious differences might be an issue I could appeal on, but I realise that is not the case.

My options now are to either home educate (not sure how to look into this as I hadn't considered the option until my mother pointed it out to me earlier today) or increase the mortgage and pay for a prep school. Only difficulty with home educating is that I work full time. There could be some scope for changing my hours though.

Has anyone any experience of home schooling whilst waiting for a placement?

Thanks