Learning to read - he remembers the stories and doesn't read them

[PassTheTwiglets]

DS (4.5) is just starting to read. I show him a new book once and he can read most of it but a few days later when I show him the book again he remembers the story almost word for word and so just recites it parrot fashion and isn't actually reading the book. Does this matter?!

(Also a teacher). I recognise this characteristic from when my own children were starting to read 10 years ago. I'd say it's a function of the type of books they are being given to "read" rather than being a developmental stage. In my class we only have decodable books and the children look at, and read, the words.

mrz, twiglet's son has not even started school yet, so in my opinion his pre-reading skills are age appropriate. Of course I use appropriate strategies to teach reading, but in your first post you said that reciting whole books was a 'cute trick', a 'minor problem' and 'isn't helping him to learn to read'. I disagree. It shows that he knows that a text has meaning, and is moving him forward to the point where he can begin to decode the text using phonics, context and other available cues. In addition, beginner readers often look at the beginning sound of a word, and refer to the picture as an extra clue as to what the word might be. So, as to using pictures? Why do you think they are in the book? I'm shocked that you're shocked. I'm sure you are a fine teacher, and so am I. So perhaps we can agree on that?

Whateveryousay.. There is a tremendous problem with circa 20% of children who do not find decoding easy. They rely on pictures, first letters etc. - strategies which are easier for them. This can work for some until they are 6-7 and then it all falls apart. This is why so many need help at that stage - it should not be necessary and would save a huge amount of money if little children were given a logical, focused approach to learning to read - devoid of mixed messages.

A good memory for story-telling is a bonus and parents of pre-school children sholdn't be worried at all.

all children, apologies if I am being unclear, but twiglet asked if it mattered that her four and a half year old recites books without decoding. I am only really referring to early years and beginning reading skills. In my opinion, he seems to be on track and getting ready to learn those essential reading skills. He is not at school yet, and I agree with you that parents of preschoolers should not worry if this is how their children currently 'read'. I agree that a reliance on pictures and an inability to use available cues would be worrying later on. I guess that's partly why we have our literacy hours, phonics teaching, special needs reading support programmes, etc. eh? To do a spot of teaching reading.

hmm, so if you know that the sign with a picture of a woman and women written beneath it reads women, you're not actually reading it because you already know what it says, right. So you don't actually read the exit sign at the theatre because you know what it says. You don't read stop and give way signs because you know what they say?

The theory that you don't actually read text because you can predict what it says is baseless nonsense. You do read it because sometimes you need to make sure that it says what you think it says. Either that or end up with your skirt half way down your legs and a bunch of surprised men staring at you.

I think perhaps you are talking cross purposes- as pp says. There is a clear difference between reading skills and retelling/remembering a story. Both are good skills but perhaps shouldn't be confused or lumped together. The first is decoding/reading using phonics, the second is memory, sometimes coupled with imagination/creative skill on the child's part using the pictures.

When the child is very young it doesn't really matter what they are doing, any looking at books is good- part of pre-reading skills. When they are school age and learning to read with phonics then the two IMO should be differentiated at least by the teacher and parent if not by the child who might initially confuse the two. So, yes, keep doing new books if you are concentrating on decoding and phonics.

Memory is part of reading though and very useful. Phonics have been proved the best way for children to learn to read, but being able to remember words you haven't seen before is very useful too! DS certainly uses his memory, we will get him to sound out tricky words he hasn't seen before, and then I think he will remember them for the next time.

I should add that I think some of the early look and say book in schools should be burnt. Seriously . I am very pleased these did not come DS's way and he jumped straight onto ORT Stage 5 after decodeables.

DD did this as well. It doesn't help that the first ORT (Chip, Kipper ones) just have the same sentence on each page.

I then asked DD to spell the words phonetically. At least she needed to concentrate on the word instead of just guessing.

Luckily her school also gives a wide range of books and changes them daily.

I haVE VOLUNTEERED TO READ (sorry caps ) in my DS's school and we had a training session with HT yesterday.

She got out an ORT3 book and said they go through the pictures first talking about what is happening/what a certain character is doing/feeling etc etc

THEN you go back to the beginning of the book and read it (well the child reads it obv.) What did suprise me is that if there is a word that is tough (the example was "swimming pool" then the child is encouraged to look at the picture to work out what the word is.

DD (4 - in nursery is a good reader and has a VERY good memory) and I have noticed that the first time she reads a book she will do it correctly (blending/sounding out) after that she has remembered the words and does as another poster said, looks at the ceiling whilst "reading" the words perfectly

I think you need to attack your local library OP. There's nothing wrong with memorising stories, but it's a different skill to learning to read. All it means is that you'll need to be unusually vigilant to make sure that when he appears to be reading he really is, just in case he manages to cover up deficiencies with memory. He'll probably be fine.

Absolutely zzzzz. This four and a half year old boy can read most of a new book and can memorise it quickly. This is not a problem. I would be delighted that a child of that age was interested in retelling stories (part of the current EYFS curriculum) and had basic reading skills. Keep up the good work at home.
If it turns into a reliance on picture cues and avoidance of other strategies, there may well be a problem, but what you have here is a normal child enjoying (hopefully) language and story.
In your turn, twiglets, try to enjoy the magical learning journey about to take place!

learnandsay yes! That's why, as time moves on and skills progress, you begin to see a child's eyes scanning the page from text to picture to text, using a range of reading cues, isn't it? They begin to use other skills aside from memory and picture clues. Thank you! And yes, that is probably why I don't go wandering into the men's loos. Not often annyhoo.

smallschool, I believe you have just said, very well if I may say so, what I have been attempting to express. Well done.

my DD did this from 4 to few months ago she's now 6, i was starting to worry about her reading, but since january she's come on leaps and bounds no more looking at the pictures to guess or memorising the book, she's properly reading now, so i wouldn't worry about your LO

Sure, whatever, reading is about a whole range of things. Yes it's about context, remembering, recognising words, likely context, sounding out words (even for adults with long unfamiliar words,) and much much more besides.

Reading is a complicated business it's not "this process" or "that process". It's lots and lots and lots of different processes all mixed up together.

Can I just be clear I don't think the OPs son learning to recite books isn't a problem because the OP clearly understands her child isn't reading.Wwhat I have a problem with is with Whateveryousaymustberight calling it a reading skill and encouraging children to read pictures rather than words.
Memorising simple books and repeating them word for word isn't learning to read and is a problem when the child isn't even looking at the books as some posters have reported. If it isn't picked up early we end up with a child who can't read and surely no one wants that.

Can I just be clear I don't think the OPs son learning to recite books is a problem

I agree learnandsay. Whenever I go to foreign climes, I try to learn at least some of the essential words and phrases, but I always feel a bit more confident when a sign has an easily recognisable picture/symbol alongside it. Especially the men's/women's loos!

Are you currently teaching Whateveryousaymustberight?

OK, mrz, sure. But doesn't this partially depend on the size of the book? Dr Suess books are too long to learn by heart for small children, (probably most adults too) You can memorise the gist of the books, sure, but not every line. In fact my daughter does exactly that and she "reads"

I do not like them with a fox. I do not like them in a box.

When what it actually says is
I would not like them with a fox. I would not like them in a box.

And I look at her sideways and say, is that really what it says? Children may think they know the text. But it doesn't mean that they do.

And she says, no. Then she reads it properly. Other times she reads fantastically up to about page 40. I mean turns the pages herself, scans and reads the lines and I sit about a foot away from her. She reads perfectly. But at about page 40 she starts reading nonsense. And the text is pretty uniform throughout. So I stop her and we start sounding out each word in turn, words she's read forty pages of perfectly. And she's still squirming about in the chair and talking nonsense.

She's just tired. So I put the book away and turn on CBeebees.

I never said children should 'read pictures rather than words'. I don't actually think we are on opposite sides of the fence at all mrz. It's a small difference of opinion on what is/isn't a reading skill. Anyway, this isn't getting my pigsty cleaned.

my dd learnt through memory in reception last year - just for the first few books before the phonics kicked in. It helped her remember words before she could sound them esp words like 'the' or bigger context words etc.

I too was worried initially - seemed like cheating! When i asked her reception teacher she also said it was normal? I suppose by 'reading' and remembering the pictures, it guides you to get the words - i'm talking about when she was in the very early stages of reading - first term or so. It hasn't done her any harm anyway as now in Y1 and her reading level is very good.

Certainly wouldnt worry if I was OP.