Incident at school - bit long

[PolarEyes]

DS1 is 6.5 in Yr1. he has a dx of ASD and has a statement for 25hrs of TA support which is used throughout classtime (i.e. no suppport at breaks/lunchtime).

When I collected DS1 yesterday he'd forgotten his hat so I went back towards his class with him. (DS2 also in school so I have to position myself between their classes to collect). The class teacher came out and said they'd had a strange incident with DS1. She went on to explain that whilst lining up for assembly he'd put his coat on and gone out to play instead. He couldn't get back in so got rather distressed. She was perplexed as he'd never done anything like it before and knows the assembly routine. I was a bit taken a back (got a lot of other stuff going on atm) and said he was probably out of routine from the Easter break. DS1 got v upset when I tried to ask him about it later. DS2 said that DS1 hadn't been in assembly (it is v small school) and Mrs X (TA) had found DS1 in the playground and let him in. (not sure how he knows that or am I taking it as gospel btw).

Having talked it over with DH I felt we needed more info, as we are aware DS1 can get v distracted so might look at his coat hanging up, think about play time and go out, but it seemed unlikely if he was queuing as we were told.

I went into the school office this morning as said I'd like more information as I was a bit unhappy about it. I then received a phonecall from the SENCo stating it was totally their (the school's fault). DS1 was in the toilet when the class had gone into assembly, a staff member was aware he was there. but he must have come out, forgotten it was assembly and gone out and thus was stuck outside (doors can only be opened from inside). she couldn't go into too much detail but the staff member responsible was very sorry and the Head Teacher was reporting it to County for their advice. I got the impression the staff member responsible was being disciplined but this is impression only at no point has the SENCo said that outright.

If you are still following this(!) I am a bit uncomfortable about the staff member getting officially in trouble and wonder if a previous meeting with the SENCO I had before Easter about a variety of issues I'd had with them (incuding DS1 being left in the toilets after school(!), though that was a different TA to the one in the latest incident) is making them feel the need to go big guns on it.My husband and I weren't really looking to make a formal complaint, only to request that they go back to using visual/written timetables with DS1 and a reassurance that we would not have a repeat incident like this again.

Do you think the school's reaction is right? I am half-minded to write a letter stating we just want DS1 to have a visual timetable again and an assurance his TA support is being allocated correctly. My suspicion (and it is just that) is the TA was told to take the other children into assembly as DS1's class is always, always late to assembly. And that has made her a bit of a sacrificial lamb...

Your concern should be for your child. You can't do anything about the school's staff disciplinary policies.

sounds a bit mountain out of a molehill to me. Problem is that the school lost track of him, which is almost their number one thing not allowed to do.

I am concerned about my child though can see how my post may read I am more focused on the TA getting in to trouble. My biggest issue, which I now realise I forgot to include in my OP, is that DS1 had a TA 4 days a week for a year but she left in February and school have yet to replace her. The TA I suspect is going to carry the can for the above incident, was the TA used on the 1 day the previous TA didn't cover and he now has her for more hours. So DS1 is very comfortable with her and I would say from what I have seen she is very good at what she does. I would just hate for her to get in official trouble when I feel it is more of a school management issue. Class Teacher is known for being disorganised hence that class is late every morning for assembly. I suppose I just want to make it clear to the school I don't need to see heads rolling if that makes sense?

I get where you are coming from, i think, but your son was left outside unsupervised, it is a very serious issue for a lad of that age without the extra needs that your little boy has, i can only imagine that my daughter would be distraught. If i were in your position i woudlnt want jobs lost but id be demanding an explanation - i dont like how the school "couldnt go into too much detail" hes your son!

The question here is not so much what happened but what else has happened at other times.
The fact that a Yr1 kid got stuck outside the school is a safeguarding issue as is the fact that the child was not spotted as being absent from assembly. As such I think the head teacher is taking a completely predicable course of action in firstly reporting the incident to the LA and secondly probably asking for advice on how things can be changed to stop any chance of it happening again.
With regard to any potential discipline issue, that is for the school to decide on and will obviously depend on whether there have been other issues with this staff member or whether it is an isolated lapse of memory. You should not and must not be aware of this, as it is an internal decision.
You are being very forgiving of the incident and probably you are right to be, but would you have been so forgiving if your son had wondered off from school and towards home or the shops or the local playground? That is the kind of scenario that the head teacher has to some extent to factor in to ensuring that this isolated incident does not happen again.

The thing is, you don't know if hte TA will carry the can because of their reluctance to discuss the details, im sorry but id be fuming. Even if the TA was at fault, it might be that she was called upon to do something else then the school is at fault as im assuming she should be attending to your son on his own?

Ragged that is exactly what my FIL has just said when I told him the latest (he was a former chair of the governer's at H's school). I just really feel for the TA. Though possibly it could be the Class Teacher as SENCo only referred to "staff member" and CT could do with a bit of a jolt tbh

I think the school are jumping through all the hoops they have to. Even if they are aware you don't want to take it further, they have to follow their procedures and protocols.

Ah lots of x-posts. Thank you for all your replies.

the SENCo stated DS1 was only outside for a couple of minutes. I am not sure how they can really determine that as they wouldn't have known how long he was on the loo for. DS1 and DS2 both stated DS1 wasn't in assembly but he was probably so hysterical after being found they couldn't have taken him in there. (he would have been incredibly distressed).

Also the top and bottoms gates are locked so he couldn't have got out of the school grounds, though he could have potentially disappeared up the school playing fields. and he had no way of getting back in any of the doors and all staff and DC were in assembly so no chance of being noticed banging on the doors etc.
I am probably being more reasonable about this than I would normally be but the fact the school told me about the incident is a huge step forward for them (I have had huge issues with them not telling me v important stuff before). So I am trying very hard to work with them. tbh the Class Teacher's version was putting all the blame on DS1 (that he just went outside whilst queuing) which is why I asked for more info and to her credit the SENCo has told me what appears to be the truth and has apologised (again a very new thing for them!).

I do feel the basic problem I have is the same issue I've had since day 1 - the school providing his statemented hours. I am pretty sure he is seen as low need and they don't think twice about reallocating his TA to suit them rather than him IYKWIM.

I will keep mulling it over. but thanks for all your replies they have been very helpful.

So picked him up from school. letter from head apologising. DS1 walking oddly. on closer inspection he stank. He'd pooed himself abd obviously been in it a while. I am raging

oh polar, thats awful - id be wanting a meeting with the head to find out exactly what they are playing a. He is clearly very unsettled by all of this. I hope they didnt tell him off :(

That's outrageous! Didn't they even realise that he had had an accident? Surely they could have smelt it and helped him to deal with it.

I really feel for your poor little one :(

Thanks. they hadn't noticed he'd had an accident. I want to keep DS1 off tomorrow. H disagrees. I think i'm right

I'd be very concerned about the CT putting all the blame on ds1. That rings alarm bells for me.

Does he have a named member of staff or is the TA the class TA who supports him?

I would keep him off tomorrow. In sure he must be upset about the incident and will need some additional support so he understands it won't happen again.

I would ring and advise school you will be keeping him off due to this and req a meeting with the head.

At my DCs school any child specific TA is in addition to the general class TA

The school need to reassure you they are meeting your DS needs and he has adequate support.

The two incidents alone are not acceptable together they are appalling

Hope the school get it sorted

stating we just want DS1 to have a visual timetable again and an assurance his TA support is being allocated correctly.

I would suggest that maybe there have been issues and concerns raised about the ta previously so suggesting that her support is not being implimented correctly.

I would request a meeting with the head and ask why they have felt the need to seek county advice and if there have been any surounding circumsatances that have affected the suport your ds has been recieving.

Definitely not taking him to school tomorrow. letter from head reads as though she was unaware of the 1st incident until the SENCo told her this morning. Surely the CT should have reported it yesterday? It was a huge accident not just a tiny bit of soiling. This is a sign to me that ds1 is very anxious as though he has occassional bouts of minor soiling I am struggling to remember when he last had a full accident. over a year ago poss longer.
He is the only statemented child in his class but his statement is woolly so school can use Ta for 1:1 small groups or whole class. I think this stilk leaves them in the shit as presumablu he has to be present not locked outside! Think realistically i should find another school

oops my previous post has gone all garbled! I don't expect the head to know about the poo incident which is how it reads. I meant it was a bit concerning that the CT hadn't informed the HT when it was realised DS1 had been stuck outside.

Festi - it was the SENCo who decided DS1 didn't need visual timetables any more as he was coping without them. then in the next breath saying DS1 was refusing to do what he was asked when he was asked to . The comments about TA support are due to me strongly suspecting that DS1 is last on the list to get help as he doesn't have any behavioural issues as others in his class and other classes do. I would stress I have no problem with TA helping others but we feel as DS1 is quite passive they mistake his quietness for being o.k. when it is the reverse. and I think that is a managerial issues rather than the TA being not up to the job.

ah pressed post too soon! Head's letter states they are seeking county's advice on the correct procedures to follow regarding the incident. so think they are just making sure they deal with it above board as per Admission's post.

Feel really sad about getting to the point we will have to remove the DC from the school as DS1 has made proper friendships which is his most affected area for his ASD dx. DH is particularly resistant to this but really and truly how many chances can we give them? we've had issues since he started in reception. Problem is the other school's in the area all have pretty bad reputations when it comes to SN & SEN. so could potentially find an equally or even worse school and then both DC have to start trying to make friendships from scratch.

Thanks for all your replies btw, it has really helped.

Polar eyes - really feel for you and your DS. I can't imagine the distress that he is in.

I would probably take the following course of action:

• meet with the head, senco and class teacher and see what they have to say re: not only incidents but also how are they supporting him on a day to day basis. Insist that they provide evidence re: his IEP & support - especially the hours allocated to him & the work they are doing with him. (Schools are very evidence based).

• If you are not happy with the answers provided and even if you are, go to the LA / Area Senco and discuss your concerns with them.

• If your son is happy, and the other local schools are poorly resourced, then really think twice about moving him to another school. Wait until you've had meeting with school and LA.

It always makes me want to scream when timetables are taken away. The reason the child is coping is because of the timetable, taking it away is a bit like taking a leg off a chair then expecting to still be able to sit on it. It's a mistake that is often made in schools.

It sounds from your first post as if this incident is being taken very seriously, as it shoukld be. Since the Statement says that your DS should have a 1-1 at all times apart from play/lunch (the least structured and most social times ), the TA should have been waiting for him when he came out of the toilet, to take him to assembly. No question about it, someone was negligent there.
The soiling incident is very worrying. It suggests to me that your DS now doesn't want to use the toilets.. He relates going to the toilets with getting stuck outside. This will take a lot of work to shift. This is traumatic stress.

Please don't let the school talk about 'toiletting issues'. If he had gone on an errand instead of going to the toilet that morning, he would probably now have an anxiety about going on that errand again. That's teh way our brains work. They tell us not to go to the dangerous place again. Your poor Ds needs to be taught that it is safe to use school's toilets again.

One thing that stricks me is that, above all other things, your ds needs to feel safe again, and to know that all the grown ups around him can be trusted to keep him safe. That trust has been broken at school. By keeping him off school, you run the risk of reinforcing that feeling of school not being safe-if Mummy doesn't think it's safe, how can DS?

If there's a chance you are goinng to keep him at this school, it might be worth taking him in in the morning and insisting on a meeting straight away with the HT (as AshieFan says). SHe can cancel any other appts as this is a safeguarding incident, and as such should take precident.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

So I went in to the school office and told them DS1 wasn't going to be in as he was sore from yesterday's incident. immediate response was "the SENCo has said he hadn't told anyone he needed the toilet" which got my back up nicely. I said the issue was they hadn't noticed as if he was being supported correctly they would have smelt it and it was clear when I checked him at teh school that he'd been in it a while. The SENCo is going to call me later on today.

AshieFan - I actually rang the SEN team at the LEA as I was somewhat incensed at their attitude - and the SEN officer suggested what you have. Long and short of it is though if they log he is being supported it is hard to prove that they aren't actually doing it and thus my options are to trust them or to remove him. As without concrete proof he isn't getting his statemented hours then they LEA can't take any action against them. My main problem is the trust has totally eroded and short of sitting in his class every day I will struggle to believe anything they say. SEN officer was surprised to hear our local school has a dire reputation with SEN; (current school is actually 5 miles from where we live). he does also rate my son's current school's SENCo though which loses him some marks!

hellhas - I have had a long-running problem with the removal of visual timetables. I think it is purely down to laziness on the school's part tbh. DS1 is really ahead in reading so they could even just type up a wordy one without pictures. SENCo has said she will reinstate it but I won't hold my breath.

Amistillsexy - It didn't occur to me the pooing may be down to anxiety/trauma over the incident. this is actually the 2nd toilet-related incident (another time he was on the loo just before the end of school. he thought he'd been left over night. TA knew he was there but didn't think to check on him and so he was alone for a good ten minutes until I managed to get her attention. I then had to go in and console a heartbroken DS1). I hear what you're saying about keeping him off but I've told him it's just for today. His bottom is a bit sore so I've told him it's because of that.

thanks so much for all your replies. still not sure what I am going to do as it is weighing up giving them yet another chance after a long history of being rubbish vs the disruption and potential more traumatic move to another school for both DC.

SENCo rang me. It did descend into an argument. apparently DS1 is unsupported on a Thursday afternoon as he is supported at breaktimes. this was news to me. She insists I knew about this which I didn't. I also think it is an out and out lie about break support and Thursday afternoons as the previous toilet incident was a Thursday afternoon and a TA was present then. She started saying she would need more hours from the LEA to be able to deal with his toiletting issues. He is also unsupported during assembly so that incident falls outside of his statemented hours too. Gosh such a coincidence. I told her I felt the trust had eroded and I was going to contact other schools. Apparently I am knitting together incidents to create a situation that doesn't exist and they are isolated and coincidental. She always expects incidents after scohol holiday's with Autistic children as that is just how it is. Teacher was out of the class in a meeting when he pooed himself and he was sitting by himself away from the other DC as he hadnt completed his work which is why his smell etc went unnoticed.

H in turn is unhappy with me about seeing another school as he is convinced it will ruin DS1's life forever and I only want to move him because the school are awkward to deal with. I feel there is a pervasive problem throughout the school and DS1 has made friends and is doing well academically despite the school, not because of them. It is not something I am looking to do lightly but do feel we need to consider it. H, however will not consider it until "something a lot worse" happens.