10 things you probably would not expect about primary schools

[meredeux]

Come and help me make a list for all those parents out there who are about to send their children to school for the first time. What did know one tell you but you learned through experience?

Here is my first one:
YOU (the parent) will teach your child to read. The school will provide reading books and someone (probably not the teacher) will listen to your child for a few minutes at a time in the first couple of years maybe once a week but your child will learn to read because you will teach them that (using the school's reading books which the teacher will issue).

For example, how many of those children have the kind of severe SEN which would mean level 3 is a fabulous achievement? How many are EAL?

that's without children who are abused, neglected, homeless or coping with less than ideal home lives.

15% of the children in dd's school are either statemented (as is dd) or SA plus, 35% are eligible for free school meals. The school is in an area of high deprivation, a large proportion of the children enter the school enormously behind their peers so for some a level 3 is an amazing achievement. Our school is at 78% level 4 and above I'd say proof that it is a fantastic school with dedicated and accomplished staff and far more exceptional than our local school's 100% level 4 and above where it is full of middle class mummys employing tutors and actively discouraging any SEN children there.

I have 17 children in Year 6 this year ( so each child represents 6%) . Of these one is statemented, one is SA+ and, had she been with us longer would also have been put forward for a statement, (she only joined us last term,) one is SEN and EAL, two others are EAL and joined us two years ago speaking no English ( and their parents speak little English even now), two more are SA. If I achieve 73% level 4 I will be over the moon! A school down the road from us has up to 50% traveller children at any one time, many of whom are in school for about 3 months of the year, a further school has over 50% EAL. Both would also consider 73% level 4 to be something of an achievement!

Agree with others that you are being naive. As I think I said further up the thread, up to half the children in my class in total have SEN / no literate adult in the family / substance abuse problems in the family / are abused or neglected (many have parents who work at night and sleep during the day, so are cared for by slightly older siblings or cousins before and after school, or look after themselves). If half of that 50% make the amazing progress they need to get level 4 in both English and Maths at the end of year 6 - and they are currently on track to do so - that would be a fantastic personal achievement by each of them.

Also, remember that of the 27%, you don't know what proportion got a level 4 in one of the two subjects but not in the other - whether it is that 27% got level 4 in neither, or that 13.5% got level 4 in one but not the other (so 86.5% got a level 4 in each), or that 98% got level 4 in maths but 75% in english.

So, for example, your 27% includes children with one of the range of problems with reading / writing that come under the umbrella term 'dyslexia', and so may have a very hard-won level 3 in English - representing a huge achievement for them - combined with a level 5 in Maths.

I accept i am naive about this. I had no idea so many children couldn't expect to make this grade.

IMO and experience, you need English and maths in life and we aren't talking PHD level here, just the basics. So I am shocked that so many fail to attain these levels by the end of their time at primary school.

The 73% is across the whole of England, not an isolated school. So it includes children from every background and every advantage and disadvantage. Surely the percentage of children who have severe problems that would cause them to not expect to get 2 level 4s do not fluctuate greatly from year to year unless emigration rises sharply and dips significantly from one year to the next?

what is EAL?

I had no idea so many children couldn't expect to make this grade.

I'm not saying that children shouldn't make the grade or that we as teachers should expect less from some children, just that the journey for some is longer and more arduous and for them at that stage a level 3 is a huge achievement and shouldn't be devalued.

teacherwith2kids - you do know that the numbers are broken down further on the published performance league tables, don't you?

mrz - i guess what i am trying to say is that I find it difficult to comprehend that so many fall into the category you describe because at the end of it all they've still got to go to secondary school and then try to find a job one day.

its 27%!! not 3% or even 10%. Its a very significant proportion of the population

Yes, you would expect that percentage to remain roughly stable IF the criteria for Level 4 remain stable and IF the assessment arrangements remain the same from year to year. You would expect a trend of gradual improvement if all schools become better at early, effective intervention for children who enter school at low levels or are at risk of falling behind due to e.g. family factors.

I suspect, for example, that not all schools are as effective at this as e.g. mrz's school and that if best practice was shared, there could be improvements.

A much more interesting question would be about 'trend lines' - a child who enters KS2 on level 1c and leaves on Level 3a is making accelerated progress and would be expected to close the gap on others. A more worrying group would be those who ended KS1 on a 2c but only made it to a Level 3 - those children are not making enough progress and the gap is widening.

So a 3 at the end of KS2 is not a 'pattern set for life' IF the trend line shows accelerated progress but from a low base (or if, for example, the child is at the early stages of learning English it 11 but then remains in the country for the next 5 years).

meredeux, yes, I do - which is why I'm wondering why you're quoting this 27% fiigure rather than a more informative breakdown?

are you saying that the criteria for level 4 changes radically from year to year?

I think the 27% with at least one level 3 (or lower) is informative.
It's better than nothing but not alright if you only get one level 4 because you need both maths and English in post-school life. The SEN numbers are also published but everyone is always at pains to point out that SEN does not equal low ability.

Yes it does

Next year I will have one child in my class who when he started school was already developmentally 3 years behind - no communication, vision and hearing problems, in nappies, requires supervision when eating or drinking as a high risk of choking, unable to move without support, another child who is developmentally 2+ years behind (was non verbal limited vocabulary less understanding) and 2 more child with high level of SEN as well as other children with emotional difficulties etc etc etc and we are a pretty average mainstream school.

" The SEN numbers are also published but everyone is always at pains to point out that SEN does not equal low ability."

I don't think they are. I think you may have missed out a "necessarily" between "not" and "equal"

Sorry the Yes it does refers to are you saying that the criteria for level 4 changes radically from year to year? not the SEN issue

"because you need both maths and English in post-school life"

But children do not leave school at 11. They have at least 5 years of compulsory schooling ahead of them. If their trajectory is one of accelerated progress from a low base, then by the time they leave school, they will have the basic skills they need (jn fact a child reading, writing and using maths at level 3 is already functionally literate and numerate - our children from illiterate families who read at this level, even at level 2, become the 'readers' of forms, letters from school etc for their parents because they are not illiterate)

You should also remember that 4b used to be the AVERAGE level at the end of Year 6 (so the highest point of the Bell curve), and then a politician decided that it should become the EXPECTED level at the end of Year 6. Only '27% below average' is actually an extremely good figure...nay, mathematically impossible... That's what I mean by changed expectations.

Definitely in dd's case her statement doesn't mean she won't achieve because she will undoubtedly get 5s in her SATs as even ds who had 1 to 1 support from the minute he entered nursery managed 5,5 4. However LA's try and convince schools and parents that the criteria for statementing is that academically a child should be very significantly behind their peers. Not true of course but if it's said often enough with conviction people listen and it deters requests for statutory assessments which are expensive and a parents only right to legal redress to get their child's needs met.

That's interesting insanity and opposite to my experience. The 2 statemented Year 8's at the middle school I work in are both only working at Level 2 in English and Level 3 in Maths. We have had 1 very, very clever boy with a statement, and his parents withdrew him to Home Ed.

About 10% of our Year 8's leave us barely achieving Level 4. I should point out that when they come to us in Year 5, some of these children are still at W or Level 1, so 3+ NC Levels progress in the 4 years they are with us, is well above expected progress.

Dd and ds are exceptions rather than the rule tbh. They got their statements at three prior to entry into any educational establishment and I think that was the key. I didn't need to rely on schools to provide any evidence that they had extra needs and I didn't need to have schools prove they were failing because I think that is where many children are failed by the system.
My two have autism, ds had very challenging behaviour so much so that LEA provided 1 to 1 support at all times although by eight we had sorted that and in secondary he was described as having behaviour second to none. He left last year with eight GCSE's A to C passes including Maths, English Lang and Lit, and Double science. He now attends an independent specialist school funded by LEA of course.
When I applied for dd's statement she was significantly developmentally delayed ie a developmental age of 6 to 12 months at two. She did part time nursery and reception with a statement in place whilst I carried out an early intervention programme at home. She left EYFS with a score of 113, ks1 with 3's and she is described as exceptional academically by her HT.
LEA's shouldn't have blanket policies as that is illegal but they do, it shouldn't depend on the academics because school is about far more than just that. Dd has a statement giving her 20hrs TA support, in effect she needs very little support and she prefers to work with her peers than alongside a TA any day.We keep it because I am aware situations change (her current teacher is fantastic, very astute, has worked with me to read dd and provides the environment in which dd can flourish) and school and I ensure that all reports justify the need for continued support
We have been very lucky, but it has to be said they don't go to our local school (because it's horses for courses at the end of the day) we travel so that they attend schools that best suit their individual needs.

Ooh I'm so excited! My little boy starts school in September. I can't wait! I am looking forward to more time for work, but also to seeing him start big school and everything that goes with it. I am sure it won't all be plain sailing, but I am just so blooming excited!

Ooh I'm so excited! My little boy starts school in September. I can't wait! I am looking forward to more time for work, but also to seeing him start big school and everything that goes with it. I am sure it won't all be plain sailing, but I am just so blooming excited!

Oops!