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Primary education

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10 things you probably would not expect about primary schools

425 replies

meredeux · 18/04/2012 12:18

Come and help me make a list for all those parents out there who are about to send their children to school for the first time. What did know one tell you but you learned through experience?

Here is my first one:
YOU (the parent) will teach your child to read. The school will provide reading books and someone (probably not the teacher) will listen to your child for a few minutes at a time in the first couple of years maybe once a week but your child will learn to read because you will teach them that (using the school's reading books which the teacher will issue).

OP posts:
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seeker · 21/04/2012 19:08

Be fair, mrz- she- is reading it in French!

mrz · 21/04/2012 19:14

ah thanks for clarifying that seeker Wink

Bonsoir · 21/04/2012 19:34

teacherwith2kids - "However in terms of their 'academic progress', the groups progress similarly..." Do you mean "academic" progress, or do you mean "technical" progress? Reading, writing, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing etc are technical rather than academic skills.

meredeux · 21/04/2012 21:07

teacherwithkids - but you still only have 5 x 6 hours teaching time per week, right? So, what happens to the kids who are lucky enough to be very able AND come from homes where the parents do a good job of preparing their children for school whilst you are working twice as hard with the disadvantaged cohort?

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seeker · 21/04/2012 21:40

"teacherwithkids - but you still only have 5 x 6 hours teaching time per week, right? So, what happens to the kids who are lucky enough to be very able AND come from homes where the parents do a good job of preparing their children for school whilst you are working twice as hard with the disadvantaged cohort?"

They are presumably getting on with the properly differentiated work they are being given- because they actually need less input from the teacher than their more disadvantaged peers?

meredeux · 21/04/2012 21:45

how do you define "need" seeker? As far as I can see any child starting in reception has a very long way to go and needs everything that a teacher can give.

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teacherwith2kids · 21/04/2012 21:47

Bonsoir,

That was why I put it in ' ' - i was using the term loosely to indicate 'progress through the EYFS / P-levels / NC levels [delete as appropriate] as indicated through APP and other assessment processes. In other words, these children make at least as much progress in terms of these levels as their more advantaged classmates, but as they often have to make accelerated progress over a sustained period to 'catch up' due to their lower starting points, their actual level of attainment may be lower. They may also have some 'gaps' that a school may only be partially be able to fill in terms of knowledge and understanding of the world - several of our children have never been even the few miles to the nearest large town. let alone to a 'place of interest' or a theatre / cinema / castle / the sea.

Meredeux,

The 1 -word answer is 'differentiation' - in every lesson I plan activities / questions / input / support / materials that should move every child forward from where I know them to be. That's my job as a teacher. I cannot neglect my more able for my less able, nor my middle ability while I accelerate the less able. I HAVE to keep them all moving forward. At its simplest, in a maths lesson on addition, my more able may be solving additions to 2 decimal places using efficient written methods, while my less able may be working on a similar task but representing the question as money and using physical coins to help in their calculations. My TA and I will also be deployed to support different groups before and after the 'main teaching input' - she might be quickly recapping prior knowledge for a children who find it hard to retain information from day to day before the lesson starts, then working with a middle ability table trying a new written method for the first time during independent work, while I might be supporting less able children or extending more able ones (the arrangement varies from lesson to lesson and day to day).

An additional answer is 'interventions' - delivered in the main by our specialist TAs (who get a lot of specialist SEN training and training in particular 'accelerated learning / catch -up' programmes). These are short, sharp, focused sessions with individual pupils or small groups to address areas of difficulty. They never replace, or take place during, core teaching or e.g. maths, phonics, literacy, guided reading, but are wedged into all kinds of small pockets of time during the day! The successful use of these means that children who are at risk of falling behind, or who have started behind, make the accelerated progress they need but without unduly absorbing teacher time during 'normal lessons'.

teacherwith2kids · 21/04/2012 21:50

x-posted with seeker - thanks.

Meredeux, It's hard to describe "modern good teaching practice", including differentiation, interventions etc to someone who hasn't seen it in action in school. I seem to remember up-thread that you mentioned that you read in school - is this not something that you see the teacher doing in every lesson??

meredeux · 21/04/2012 21:51

ok, but how does that work with "closing the gap"? Is it that the disadvantaged are ripe for the things you teach them so they will move on faster than the others?

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meredeux · 21/04/2012 21:54

I have seen differentiation in action, yes. IME, things are not very differentiated and its about subdividing into 5 or 6 subgroups, so there are still outliers whose needs will not be addressed.

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meredeux · 21/04/2012 21:54

"intervention" - not sure what this is. Is it when a child gets a TA to him/ her self?

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meredeux · 21/04/2012 21:56

sorry forget that last post - i just saw you answered it above!

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teacherwith2kids · 21/04/2012 22:01

I would say that a whole variety of things help with closing the gap.

Interventions are probably the most direct. The majority of these children do not have SEN. They are as capable of learning as their peers, they just lack some of the early 'building blocks' - interventions 'back fill' these, new teaching takes them forward.

I also direct my 'main' teaching towards AT LEAST age-related expectations (usually above), with differentiation for the less able through support, additional resources or materials etc - and this does tend to have a 'stretching' effect on those who are behind, whereas directing teaching to their 'current' level would not.

'

LittleFrieda · 21/04/2012 22:04

DD's reception class didn't cover the basics even nearly thorughly enough. We have had to do an awful lot at home. Her class feels very geared-up for the hares in the class, which is frustrating when you have a tortoise.

teacherwith2kids · 21/04/2012 22:11

"IME, things are not very differentiated and its about subdividing into 5 or 6 subgroups, so there are still outliers whose needs will not be addressed."

In my Year 3 class, I have children working between the level typical towards the end of Reception (P8, just below NC Level 1) and the end of Year 6 (NC 4b).

These 'outliers' are making progress in line to the rate of progress those children working at the 'expected level for their age' - so the differentiation seems to be appropriate.

I know in some classes, perhaps in schools less used to dealing with large ability spreads (my own children's 'leafy town' school has a much more tightly bunched ability spread, and I suspect many of their teachers would struggle with some of my 'outliers'), differentiation is less carefully planned and less well implemented. I don't really get an option - the ability spread in my class last year, and again next year, is even more extreme!

teacherwith2kids · 21/04/2012 22:12

in line with. Apologies

blackeyedsusan · 21/04/2012 22:42

one ... yes... but using library books and own books.

two. no extra support is provided for handwriting as dd is hypermobile, but I have to keep on top of what is happening.

mrz · 22/04/2012 07:31

We work in a different way to that described. All interventions are in addition to rather than a substitute for normal teaching. So children who need extra help have lessons before or after normal school hours or during the lunch break.
We run OT groups for children who have physical difficulties such as dyspraxia or hypermobility.

snowball3 · 22/04/2012 09:16

Children are "measured" by using average points progress. The expectation is that, certainly from KS1 to KS2, children should make a minimum of 3 points progress per year, so it doesn't matter where they start from, they still have to make at least 12 points progress over the 4 years, whether from a 1b to a 3b or a 3b to a 5b. BUT children with SEN of any type are expected to make a minimum of 4 points progress a year in order to aim to catch up. I have children in my class working from level 2b to level 7, all are expected to make at least minimum progress over the year or I'm in trouble!! I can't "ignore" any one group to concentrate on the others, progress doesn't happen that way!

seeker · 22/04/2012 09:53

Another point. Parents always think all the attention is going to other children and their child is being overlooked because they are below average/average/above average.

snowball3 · 22/04/2012 10:12

Good Grief Seeker, do you mean there are children who are actually average!

teacherwith2kids · 22/04/2012 10:21

snowball, all our children (KS2) are expected to make 4 points' progress every year....so for children who are 'behind' on entry to make accelerated progress, they have to make more than 4.... It's possibly because such a large proportion of our children do start with low entry points (as I say, no spoken language is not uncommon) that we set ourselves such challenging targets (also possibly because many of these children do not have 'SEN' in the classic sense of a 'barrier to learning', as they start way behind simply because of their home backgrounds. They are therefore capable of making quite startling progress - in some cases!)

TrinityRhino · 22/04/2012 10:24

I am so shocked by some of the things you lot think about your kids schools
I have been lucky enough to not have found any of these things true

all my kids love their school
I find it structured, fair, friendly
I haven't taught any of my kids to read or write
they have done all that and millions more

now the secondary we have near us...well, we shall see

snowball3 · 22/04/2012 10:26

4 points every year is a hard slog for most! Does that mean that your 2A's at KS1 have to be 5B by year 6? That's not TOO hard in maths but is pretty tough in Writing, we struggle in getting them to 4A!

Henwelly · 22/04/2012 10:29

Dont know where you are with numbers, but here is one of mine.

You are always welcome to chat with DC teacher. Their door is always open to listen to concerns or worries.

That is of course between 8.45 & 8.47am & 3-3.15pm if you can locate the teacher, also you must know the secret password that allows you past the gestapo receptionist!!