10 things you probably would not expect about primary schools

[meredeux]

Come and help me make a list for all those parents out there who are about to send their children to school for the first time. What did know one tell you but you learned through experience?

Here is my first one:
YOU (the parent) will teach your child to read. The school will provide reading books and someone (probably not the teacher) will listen to your child for a few minutes at a time in the first couple of years maybe once a week but your child will learn to read because you will teach them that (using the school's reading books which the teacher will issue).

(That you weren't there, I mean, not disappointed that they got the award)

Actually I'd like to ask all of you on here with probably very valid complaints what YOU are doing about the issues raised? If the answer is "nothing I am just having a whinge" then you are part of the problem. Nothing will change unless you make it change - volunteer in the school, raise questions with your MP, join the Governing body, challenge decisions if you think resources are not being used well. Don't just sit here moaning about it (although I concede it probably lets people blow off some steam) make change happen.

Codandchops Fri 20-Apr-12 11:50:48
if that means your normal needs child has brought home a book and YOU gave to read because the school allocated their LIMITED resources to children like mine then TOUGH!

I am genuinely shocked at this! And you say you are on a governing body too!!

It seems extraodinary to me that anyone thinks it's OK for parents to take on the bulk of learning at home: or indeed any learning at home when their child is at a state school. Fine for the children whose parents take that on, but what about the many whose parents don't/can't take this on? It's essential that schools teach children the basics and of course it's completely reasonably to expect them to do so.

I think arsehole pushy parents have ruined schools by not trusting them to teach, Instead they constantly enquire about their child, his level and fuss over the slightest bit of nonsense. Teachers are so busy appeasing these stupid people the language of the national curriculum was invented to appease these people that there's no time left to teach.

I don't want to know what level my child is on. Really I don't. But I think it's reaonable for us to expect our children's trained teacher might use her training and teach them the odd thing.

codandchops I don't think teh thread started out to bash anyone. It was lighthearted and had nothing to do with state education.

However, if some posters are finding serious problems with their schools including on this thread schools not noticing their DC was dyslexic, teachers not believeing a DC was bright, teachers too bust for conversations, violence in the classroom...then these shouldn't IMVHO be minimised or glossed over.

People who attest that state education is excellent generally fail to see that state provision in the UK is very patchy. It as absolute lottery where you will end up. As a parent you have no control whether you will end up in a school with the lovely mrz as a teacher, or a teacher who will tell you that you should be doing 90% or teaching at home (as per another thread).

Pretending that this is not the situation will only allow successive governments to ignore the problem.

Agree with Littlefrieda re: pushy parents.
I don't think parents have to be doing "90% of teaching at home" but of course you need to encourage them to talk about what they've been doing, read together, have a homework routine and provide some back up if needs be. e.g our school is v small and doesn't have some of the bells & whistles (climbing wall, dance studio, ski-ing trips et al) so I try to provide what I can in terms of a few xtra curric activities, days out etc. (Recently the NT were offering 3 day 'Wild In The Woods' (Forest School) sessions....absolutely free I keep an overview and if I think something is a little lacking or needs more input I try to provide it...in moderation.

I have known parents move their child from a school where they were perfectly happy and achieving well because the teachers weren't giving them the answers they wanted to hear i.e. "Your child is an absolute genius & top of the class".

BTW It was supposed to be a light hearted thread, although sometimes I have been serious. Only codandchops has actually bothered me though. I didn't like her attitude at all.

meredeux I aplogise if that comment shocked you but the fact remains that if you have children in a class who are very needy educationally then the resources will go to them first - that's only right and believe me when I tell you that in my shoes you would feel exactly the same. And I worded that comment very badly.

Yes I am on a Governing body and that is about seeing the the resources are used in the best and most fair way possible - so those who need it most get more input than those who need less. That is not to say the most able get NO input - they do and certainly our school takes this seriously in ensuring the most able are not getting bored.

I go in and listen to children read one day a week, I make time to do this because I know that not all parents will have the time to do so at home. The children I hear read are generally confident readers despite not getting enough teacher time because schools use a variety of ways to get children reading beyond just plain listening. Our school uses Read Write Inc. for all children and focuses on those children who are less confident.

I would encourage anyone who is able to give up a couple of hours to listen to children reading, I am always guided by the class teacher with regard to what a child should be able to achieve and I report back too so that if needed the teacher can make time for a child who might be struggling.

If your child is coming home full of religious claptrap what the hell did you expect by sending them to a faith school?

"codandchops I don't think teh thread started out to bash anyone. It was lighthearted and had nothing to do with state education."

So in your view do all these criticisms apply equally to private education?

I apologise if I have upset anyone - am a bit touchy at the moment. Apologies.

sekker - why does it matter so much to you about private education and whether or not it suffers the same ills as state education? genuinely curious.

codandchops - no worries. Let's forget it.

Because I think you would be wrong to extrapolate from the particular ( your experience) to the general (all schools). But particularly wrong if you are saying "this is what all state schools are like" because you are giving ammunition to the state school bashers, and terrifying the 93% of people who use state schools. Most of whom will have a completely different experience. Mumnsnet gives a skewed view of education provision and take up anyway- it seems to me to be wrong to skew it further.

What has surprised me about primary school the most is how much religion is still taught as fact in a state, non-denominational school.

Also, though the level of homework has been generally acceptable, I was a bit shocked by amount of Y2 homework given for the Easter "break".

6 maths problems
2 sets of spellings to learn for a test
Exercises to do with the spelling words (write a story, make a wordsearch)
2 pages of mental arithmetic book
A project on an animal of their choice to be presented as show and tell on their return.

Though DD1 was happy to do it and quite enjoyed most of it I still thought it was a bit much for a 6 year old.

NoMoreInsomnia - the ever-incresing homework is set to please the pushy-parents. Even though the majority of parents are against so much homework.

What has surprised me about primary school the most is how much religion is still taught as fact in a state, non-denominational school.

Interesting...
Suach as what?

*such -_-

I wish someone had told me it was down to me to teach DD and DS3 to read.

codandchops - I don't think we all "moan" about the same things. What some others are not happy with are things that others are perfectly happy with. I'm afraid I can't turn the tide singlehandedly about the UK Dept of Education and educators' insistence that 4 and 5 year olds hit targets for reading and writing (I even object personally that an under 6 should hit any target) at those ages. Also that July and August born children are expected to hit the same targets as September and October born children at the same time, but again, this is a personal issue - I know for a fact that friends who have Sept and Oct born kids say that their kids actually want to do more - not hit more targets, but do more difficult work. It's not surprising - they are virtually a year older.

But the system of requiring parental involvement that puts all kids with parents who can't/won't be involved at a total disadvantage? I don't know how to convince a whole generation of educators. I remember when contemporaries could have parents who were illiterate, from a foreign country or absent (from illness/alcoholism/drug/etc etc issues) who could go to school and do really well because all their educating was done inside a classroom. People say that's going back to stuffy, dull methods from the fifties - or even Victorian times! But it works for those kids who don't have access to parents with a computer, braodband, money for extra books, who understand what phonics are or have time to learn it, etc etc. I don't hold much hope that there are any teachers left who are still reading this thread (yes, some of it is too negative against teachers and schools) but if any are, I'd be interested in their thoughts. The current system is fine for me because I have the time and resources to do all of it - even down to the home baking (which does not get appreciated anyway) - because I will do it for DCs but I wonder what will happen to the kids in the community who don't have that luxury, through no fault of their own.

Sunscorch Our county (i.e. Non- denominational school) tells them that God made the world, details of Christmas and Easter stories, including crucifixion etc, our yr 2 dd came home talking about how StGeorge was only 17 when he was beheaded for supporting Christians against the Romans. They also discuss christening, etc. They also have a daily act of worship. We don't mind as are Catholic, but can see might annoy an athiest. If it is any comfort they also cover other religions as fact. Dd was tempted by Judaism in yr R, but now other than Christianity, Islam is her 'favourite' religion (don't tell the priest). I know that some of these things will have been said as 'some people believe that God created the world', but to a 4/5/6 yr old that means 'blah blah blah God created the world'.

how did this become yt another state/indie slanging match debate?
If these points apply to state schools, and 93% of people use them, then is is relevant to the vast majority. I recognise almost all the points, havng had DC at a state primary, and it would have been useful for me to have these very real tips pointed out in advance. Would not have sent me hysterically off to indie instread.

seeker absolutely no one said that these issues were in state schools not private. You and only you, made this this thread about that!

The stuff about endless costumes, the class pet and teddy, the PTA machine, the lost property mountain, the educationalese that teachers speak at parents evening are perfectly applicable to both sectors I'm sure.

And as you so rightly pointed out most private school parents have t do just as much at home as state schooled parents. Most private schools would expect parents to read with their DC every night.

What do new parents need to know?

Which items of schoolwear have to have an 'official' logo and which can be bought from Asda at a fraction of the price

Assume you will have to wash a complete set of unifrom every day, so buy lots

Label everything

Don't buy an undistinctive black or navy winter coat, make sure it has a recognisable pattern/stripe which helps DC find it in the pile of 25 others on the cloakroom floor

Never, ever send those little exploding plastic strawberries of petit filous in lunch boxes

Assume all the other parents in the yard and kind and nice, and chat to everyone

Ask the teacher "when would be a good time to catch you for a quick word about...." rather than hogging the door in the morning as seven year olds with violas try to squeeze past

Your DCs will be extraordinarily tired and probably grumpy by 3.30, and not wanting to play '20 questions' about the curriculum

"Molly and Willian and Chloe were DCs best friends, but that was yesterday, and today Molly told Charlotte that Chloe said that...oh, do keep up, Mum!"

Aways leave an extra 10 minutes in the mornings because nothing ever runs to plan...

Go through schoolbags, pockets, car doors with a fine toothcomb to find that vital letter EVERY DAY

Don't believe that the rest of Year 1 have iPhones and a laptop in their bedroom

Find out from the office the dates of the Christmas plays etc as early as possible (weeks before the letters have gone home) if you want to book time off work

Give them a big cuddle and a when they come home...after all, they are only a day older than the preschooler you had yesterday x

As I said when you challenged me about this earlier, the OP referred to OFSTED ratings. It was a reasonable assumption that she was talking about state schools. And others then piled in to say "Well, you don't get X at independent schools"

It ws the monstrous generalisations that rattled my cage- I didn't turn it into a state/ private thread.