Teachers, can you spot a difference between kids who use maths websites and those who don't?

[Iamnotminterested]

Am just curious as there seems to be sooo many sites out there vying for parents money and, dare I say it, preying on our insecurities.

Do they make a difference to a childs' classroom ability?
Do they speed up mental maths recall?
Do you recommend them?

Thanks.

Apologies, PSBD - I was answering the question as posed "Can I, as a teacher spot a difference ....etc". I was not answering the question 'Should parents ever subscribe to Maths websites' - to which my answer would have been different.

Just for clarification - if maths is being well-taught in your child's school, then maths websites / workbooks / games played with parents are a good way of reinforcing basic maths facts (do whichever is most fun for you and your family).

If maths is being well-taught but you or the teacher spots a problem in a particular area, then maths websites can be useful in providing extra rehearsal in that area (often only needed over a short period).

However, if maths is is NOT being well-taught (bear in mind that 'well taught' may not mean 'using the methods you are used to', but should see your child making good progress and usually reaching age appropriate levels) then full subscription to a 'maths teaching type' website may be one appropriate response by parents worried about their child's progress. Obviously there are other situations where a subscription might be appropriate - prolonged absence from school, moving schools, temporary or permanent home ed etc.

However in my classroom, with the children I teach, I see the uses as outlined above.

We also do the Mathsfactor, only started a few weeks ago, not because we want to impress the teacher, but because my dd is not confident with maths.

Having moved schools in September, three weeks into the term, I know she is feeling that she is behind. The teacher has no worries, but she does work slowly, because her old school didn't really teach her numberbonds and how they work. We play Monopoly a fair bit at home and do other stuff, but I am not a teacher and it is hard to know how to put it over.

Whilst she has had a little bit of extra help with maths in her new school, she still wants to keep up with the others, when they do their maths workbooks once a week (formal sums really), they all work at their own pace and she isn't at the lowest level (bearing in mind she missed the first three weeks), but she wants to be working on Lesson 26, not 19 and I know she feels she is always playing catch up.

Since doing Maths Factor, she has grown in confidence, suddenly really understanding how numbers can work - seeing the patterns and places of numbers and knowing that the CAN do it.

Today I was watching her do some homework - simple sums like 19-7= etc., whereas previously the only way she was confident of getting it right was to count back, today she was using her number bonds to 20. To see her pleasure of being able to do it the 'quick way', as she calls it, was a joy to see and if that means when she returns to school next week, she can at least do some of those 24 sums in each lesson the same way, I know she will feel she can keep up. The ones she still feels the need to count up/down etc., will come in time.

If your child is doing OK in Maths, is confident, or you have the patience and knowlege to do it yourself, then these maths sites are a waste of money. But for me (who is hopeless at maths and never knew about a number bond - although I don't tell her that!), it is a Godsend!

DD also loves the rewards, earning marbles and helping out Mathsbot - don't ask!!!

mrz & mrsrotter

Sorry mrz/ mrsrotter - just suggesting some ideas for initial support once mrsrotter's DC starts school. Just some ideas to bookmark for safekeeping for then - didn't mean to imply start today. sorry about that.

mrz our school really pushes sparklebox and I'd no idea about the background of the person behind it so thank you. Will let school know as well.

Can I ask - does nobody have joined up thinking in education? Shouldn't this have been generally announced to schools? Or is this just another example of the 'thoroughness' of our school?

I totally agree with PastSellByDate, out school uses mathletics, but fails to teach them how to do all the working out. This was apparent after a meeting last year, when parents complained.

Matheletics is great for mentally adding up, dividing etc and whipping up competativeness amongst the children and competing against other countries, but the basics still need to be taught in the classroom setting.

Sparklebox was barred by most LEA but some teachers got round it by downloading the resources at home putting convenience before the moral issue.
Remember PastSellByDate even when children start school they aren't in KS1 so those websites may be a little in the future for most children in reception bitesize is intended for Y2

www.bgfl.org/bgfl/15.cfm?s=15&p=253,index

A teacher once said to me "it's obvious you do a lot at home with her"
No, I didn't.

They are good if you need many repetitions to grasp a concept or skill in the subject; or if your learning style is solitary (i.e group learning doesn't really work for you) and the teacher cannot spend enough time with each child.

If your child is fairly able, they are simply an entertaining diversion and you'd be better off going for a walk!

I can spot the difference. The ones who are told 'alternative' methods by their parents/ tutors/ websites are massively confused by school's methods.

I teach them, again and again, a method that ACTUALLY HELPS THEIR UNDERSTANDING and then mummy goes and teaches them long division. To a child struggling to grasp basic maths.

Sigh.

Basically means I start at square one. Over and over and over and over and over again.

I hope my child isn't taught by juniper904. Being able to perform calculations in the way that's most appropriate for the child, rather than the one the teacher finds most convenient to teach, is quite important for me.

I think it is important when children are young not to confuse by giving different methods at home. My ds year 2 introduced me to number sentences etc. I ask what he does at school before attempting to 'help' him or confusion would reign,
[eg no column stuff at moment].

Very harsh Avocado. That's not at all what Juniper's saying.

'convenient to teach'?!?! What does that mean? Quicker, easier? Why about 'gives a child an understanding of number'?

What about, not why about

PastSellByDate if a child knows that subtraction is the inverse of addition and they can add then subtraction isn't a problem. The same applies to multiplication and division. IMHO problems arise when they are asked to do something before they have mastered the previous step.

mrz:

DD1 (first 2 terms Y2) could get that taking one raisin away from 10 left 9 by counting them up - but couldn't answer verbal question so 10 - 1 equals ? (right afterward) or written question.

This was observed by teachers and by DH and I at home. She was totally at sea and remained there for 9 months whilst we bit our tongues and let the 'capable professionals' at the school deal with it. Adding numbers >20 together was also usually impossible - only had success with 20 + 30 or 20 + 15, because DD1 was adept at counting by 10s or 5s.

MIL (who's father was an HT in the 1930s - 1950s) was furious with us for raising it as an issue at the time (beginning Oct Y2) but Easter Y2 she tried 10 buttons take away 1 - how many do we have and DD1 counted up 9 and then tried now if we say 10 take away 1 how many do we have and a complete blank. Even MIL (age 82 at the time) who is of that generation never to question authority was absolutely horrified an 8 1/2 year old couldn't take 1 from 10.

MIL asked what have you been doing in class? DD1 responded we've been colouring in caterpillars and train cars. We also do a lot with colouring 10 things in as many different patterns as we can think of with a certain amount of colours. MIL asked Do you get number problems dear? No - Mrs X says 'I'm just not any good at maths'.

mrz that is teaching at our OFSTED rated 'GOOD' school.

Travesty just doesn't sum it up.

Apologies for spellings/ and left out words all - but trust me all I see is a red fog - I'm am livid at what passes for 'National Curriculum' according to school at which my DD and her classmates are taught.

Right or wrong we've gone off plan and done our own thing. We have no interest in what the school is doing in maths - it's all bonus as far as we're concerned but if they opt out of numeracy hour that week, for a Class Assembly practice or Christmas play practice, sports Day, etc... that's not a problem. If they opt out of homeworks for weeks on end, not an issue. And that's because 5 times a week, we do our 20 minutes and slowly, but surely, our DDs are learning maths fundamentals.

We always do school homework. We supplement mathsfactcor if DD wants to do more by doing extra through library options in MyMaths, which the school subscribed to this year to impress OFSTED. We just keep plugging away, because it is ever so apparent the teachers have no interest in grounding these kids in foundation skills of mathematics.

Finally - I can assure you 'group learning' isn't the issue. The kids in that class are great and generally well behaved - sure there are a few rowdy ones, and reading mornings in KS1 were noisy affairs, but they are generally respectful and hard working kids. They all seem bright and interested and willing to try hard. OFSTED said they were a credit to the school - which many read as it's amazing they're so good given the school is so _ (please fill in the blank with the appropriate belittling pejorative).

I hope my child isn't taught by juniper904. Being able to perform calculations in the way that's most appropriate for the child, rather than the one the teacher finds most convenient to teach, is quite important for me.

Juniper didn't say that at all, she actually said she teaches the method that 'ACTUALLY HELPS THEIR UNDERSTANDING' - TheAvacadoofWisdom. I hate it when posters on Primary Education say 'I hope my child is never taught by you' - it's very rarely warranted and just plain nasty most of the time.

I am only a colleague in that I am also a teacher. My point was that saying you hope an MN teacher never teaches your child is a nasty cheap shot. I can't see anywhere where juniper disagrees with you - she disagreed with parents teaching advanced calculations inappropriately to a child who really struggles, thereby doing further damage which she has to undo. I don't think any teacher wouldn't agree - but wrt to online programmes, use what you like. She didn't comment on that, or disagree with you.

Neither do I! But I don't like it when posters come out with a line like that - it's unwarranted, hurtful and just bitchy in 99% of cases.

please can I appeal to your professionalism to review the sample lessons and learn about mathsfactor before your declare it is useless, teaching unsound method and/ or of no actual help.

Neither I nor juniper have said anything even approaching that! She talked about using inappropriate methods, and I haven't commented at all. Fwiw, I think it's usually very positive when parents support at home, and I haven't come across any online programmes that I dislike, quite the opposite.

'Be professional'????? 'Otherwise you are simply an amateur'?

I don't appreciate you preaching at me, PastSellByDate - I haven't offered an opinion on MathsFactor - other than to point out once that your post recommending it should see you get some kind of commission. I don't have to review this website because you are demanding that I do - I may have been happy to have a look before you ranted about it, but there are several on the market.

My only point is that to make a remark such as Avocado's is below the belt - for that I have earned a ridiculous rant from you about what I should and should do wrt a website - demanding that I do this, this and this! Now I'm cross - and I am reporting you for your agressive and repeated assertions that parents and now teachers must review this website. They must do no such thing. It's a commercial venture which I may choose to look at if and when I like - and not because a silly poster insists that I do because of an entirely different point that I was making.

'Amateur!'

and not willy nilly dismissing things you haven't seriously investigated.

And, once again - I HAVE NEVER DISMISSED IT! I have never commented on it - ever.

You have tried to push this website in 36 different threads now, PastSellByDate - if you do work for them then your aggressive and slightly unhinged marketing strategy has put me right off it, before I have even looked.

Forgot to add for juniper904 and Feenie -

DD1 has been on mathsfactor for 2 full years and has yet to be taught long division.

order of learning has been
simple addition (numbers to 30)
easy subtraction (numbers to 10)
simple subtraction (numbers to 30)
big addition (numbers to 100) - using column method and decomposition
big subtraction (numbers to 100) - using column method and decomposition
place value (learning units, tens, hundreds and identifying digits in big numbers in terms of units, tens, hundreds)
averaging (to nearest 10)
averaging (to nearest 100)
averaging (to nearest 1000)
simple decimals (adding decimals to make numbers

Third time now - I haven't commented on Maths Factor. At. All.

Feenie and juniper904 - report away.

But ask yourselves. you have both repeatedly - because I'm usually at battle with you two dismissed on-line learning (in many varieties).

I haven't insisted - I've dared you. And you've backed away, and now you're so insulted you've complained.

MY PUBLIC RESPONSE - is CHICKEN!

You're being insulted - suggests your not used to a mere parent standing up to you and saying sorry lady (I'm guessing) I don't think you are God's gift to education and know everything.

My supporting mathsfactor (and I'm definitely not on commission) is because the teachers and Head Teacher and SEN at my DDs school after several queries, then formal complaints did NOTHING. NOTHING. I was handed the national curriculum. Told they were teaching to it and told they do not recommend parents do more at home.

I'm asking you (in fact pleading with teachers who post here) - to think through that situation. An educated woman has been asking since Year 1 why x or why isn't being taught, why is there no homework?, why DD1 can't seem to add when children similar age at schools in 3 mile radius can, why DD1 can't subtract Y2, etc.... and kept getting put off, told they'd do it next year, told things will progress next term, you'll see, etc... and still no progress and then was flat out told what I needed to understand was my DD was basically dumb and couldn't get her mushy little brain round it and never would.

I'm begging you to look at my situation and make an honest judgement. I'm asking for a second opinion.

AND YES I'M LIVID. WHY ARE WE PAYING TAXES FOR THIS?????

Why am I having to do this support at home.

I'm not alone. There's a whole group of us doing this at our school and colleagues here at work are doing much the same. Why are people who work all day going home and doing the teacher's job.

So yes, FEENIE I take your point -I'm being aggressive. But can you blame me? Really? Can you blame my negative attitude toward teachers. Has my child really been support on 'her learning journey'. Has my DDs school which has 'bringing out the best in every child' plastered all over the building - really done it's level best to help me child? REALLY?

I'm asking for your professional judgement. That's not disrespectful - that's asking you and other teachers to get on here and specifically review a product you've all been generally dismissing or implying had faults.

I'm not ordering you. I'm asking you as a professional on behalf of the many, many worried and desperate parents repeatedly posting here asking for help in maths to look at this product and give us your professional opinion - and I am not asking that it is positive.

Now as an educator - as someone educating the next generation - I'm asking you on a personal level as someone committed to and valuing learning - to stop being offended by a deeply aggrieved parent who was handled badly by a school I'm certain has nothing to do with you - I'm asking you to step back and realise we come to MN for advice/ guidance.

Don't generally dismiss mathsfactor or any other programme (which let's be fair FEENIE juniper904 pretty much did). Go investigate it - and then if you dismiss it fine. But don't be so high and mighty that because I didn't ask you nicely with pretty please and possibly a box of chocolates go off in a huff. Think woman.

My god PSBD is so angry about schooling in her area and what huge efforts she's having to go to to teach her kids that she's basically unhinged and begging me to look at this. Not for commercial reasons. Not to score points. But because PBSB would like teachers to come on here and honestly say - hey parents, if maths teaching at your DCs school isn't working than try this. And I'm more than open to you saying don't use x but use y or any others.

Please - FEENIE, MRZ, JUNIPER904 and all other teaching pundits - please we're desperate for guidance out here. We have to cast about and try things - please teachers look at these programmes and rate them for us (as a group/ here on MN/ through your unions/ whatever) please help us parents when we are let down.

WE'RE JUST TRYING TO EDUCATE OUR KIDS IN ABSENCE OF SUPPORT FROM OUR SCHOOLS. I WOULD HOPE THAT TEACHERS WOULD SUPPORT THAT AND PROVIDE SENSIBLE GUIDANCE, WHEN A PARENT IS STRUGGLING AND ONLY WANTS A CHILD TO BE ABLE TO ADD, SUBTRACT, MULTIPLY AND DIVIDE.

And no - it's not an outrageous expectation. What's outrageous is a HT telling me it was.