Cany anyone advise regarding access to National Curriculum levels?

[littleappletree]

I've already mentioned on another thread that earlier in the year I asked for DS's NC levels and the class teacher declined to share this information. I know that I'll be getting them at the end of the year but I would like to know where he is now. If he's struggling then I'd like to help him a bit more but if he's doing well then I'll ease off.

What legal rights to I have to this infomation? Is the teacher within her rights to withold it?

Don't get hung up on NC levels. They don't really tell you what you want to know.

Instead ask what he's struggling with

For example his NC level in maths might be at the expected level, but that might be because he's very good at numbers but very bad at shapes.

His NC level won't tell you he's very bad at shapes.

Our teachers will only tell if asked. This does make one feel a bit grubby I find!
They do the under/ within/ over expectations line otherwise. I did ask at last parents evening as don't want results to come as a surprise to me at end of year. My ds does seem to have idea of what he is working towards so must be some talk in class. [Year 2].

Thanks for your responses. I understand what your suggesting about areas for improvement and this was something else that I was going to ask. I do rather resent, the school deliberating withholding information. It makes me feel as though they are the parent and I'm the child.

If I requested all the info on my child under the Data Protection Act would this form part of it?

No, it wouldn't.

NC levels mid-year are really not that helpful though. At KS2, a DC is "expected" to make 1 full level of progress in 2 years. So you might see no change at all in sublevel from term to term - doesn't mean DC is not making progress.

Indigo, a question: if a child is indeed really good at number and not good at shape. What happens to their level?
If they were working at high level 4 in most areas of numeracy but say, 3b in shape, would they get a 3b?

I'd definitely specifically ask again. My dd eIofinished year 1 on all 2b's at November spent evening that was again confirmed I asked what her targets were for end of year 2 and year 2 teacher refused to share said she was doing fine. At recent parents evening I specifically requested end of year targets and was told she'd achieve her targets which bizarrely all level 2a. I asked if she'd struggled this year hence the low target of just 1 sub level all year and was told no and that 2b is the goal for the end of year 2. Which got me flummoxed because its a sschool that gets 50% level 3's at end of ks1.

50% level 3s very high. [Our school below nat av on level 3s probably due to catchment area. 50% would seem like an impossible dream!!].

AFAIK if you were level 4 on most of the numeracy strands, but a level 3 on shapes, you'd be given a level 4.

These intermediate judgements come down to teachers discretion.

Whereas the KS2 SATs come down to a certain mark in a test. So you could def get a level 4 in the test while scoring low on the shapes section.

Thee is a statutory obligation to give you your child's NC levels at the end of year 2 and year 6 - at the edge of key stages. The reason for not giving them qt other times is that children do not make all make steady linear progress, so a snapshot on a day is not really helpful. You should, however, be told whether your child is on track for his end of ks targets.

I hate to risk Indigo's anger - but I'm afraid the freedom of information act means that anything done on the taxpayers' penny can be requested (although some information may be made anonomous - i.e. children under 16s names).

So you can request any e-mails, correspondence, written work, etc.. your child produces or that is related to your child legally.

The school (or LEA) may charge you for this information, but they cannot withold it.

Information Commissioner's Office info on parental request for information on their child here: www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/schools/pupils_info.aspx

Finally - it is clear that OFSTED are now looking to understand that pupils know how they are doing and that this information is made available to parents/ carers (not at the end of the year, but at the time they inspect) - as a result, this is starting to change the information flow and its content to parents. We definitley found in the run-up to our recent OFSTED inspection, we suddenly were given all sorts of detailed information on our children, including NC Levels.

HTH

Hmmm I think knowing them is the only way you can see if they are making real progress.If they've not moved in 6 months I want to know why. There may well be a good reason(which is what parents evening is for) but I have a right to know.If in another 6 months there is still no movement without a good reason I want to be informed enough to make sure something is done about it if needs be.

In some schools progress will be too little and parental pressure will help to improve it.

Not sure of the educational benefit of keeping such important info from parents,aside from anything else I want to know levels to support my dc at home let alone keep an eye on progress.

Sorry but I think the days of limited progress and hoping parents won't notice are over.

I requested said info and our school happily gave it.To be honest I'd be worried if they didn't as it would make you think they were trying to hide something.My mind was put at rest-for now.I will be checking again a few months down the line.

Parents aren't dim dragons,we just want as much info as possible concerning our dc so we can work with the school to ensure there is as much progress as possible.

I think that this just comes down to individual school policy. In written reports we are told how they are doing versus national expectations, but at parents evening we are now told grades. We used to get told average, high average etc.

The thing is that the children seem to be highly motivated to hit their targets, and only actual grades will do for this. This works regardless of what those targets are and respects the fact that children will be on different levels.

What information does a little number and letter give you, that asking what your child needs to work on to improve doesn't?

How old is your child? I can easily find out my Year Four child's NC targets by asking him! I then assume that he is rougly one sub-level below that.

For example, he tells me he is targetting 4b in Numeracy but that he hasn't hit any individual targets, so I guess he is a 4c. Today they were adding decimals and rounding to nearest unit.

No doubt, someone will come and tell me he is wrong now!

Because your child may have been working to improve on that area for far too long,it also doesn't tell you if that is where they should be at or any details.

With levels you get exactly what they're doing,can see where they're going next,know exactly how much progress they've made and if the school is really good at informing parents you'll see if the the amount of levels they've attained is what is expected for their age re progress.A bit of waffle eg needs to work on punctuation doesn't tell me a lot.

I also think parents loose/forget old reports,they don't forget numbers.They can see at a glance if they've not moved and if the progress they're making is slow.

MrsHeffley - so agree! Our school do a graph for each subject over time, showing improvement and saying if there is none or a dip to ensure they come in and discuss why. It is really welcome.

The school my DN attends refuses to discuss NC levels during a school year. So it was only when she got his report at the end of Y5 that she learned he had started the year at 3b...and ended it at 3b. He's currently in Y6 and scored 4b in his last SATS mock, but only after a lot of input from her. I think schools have an obligation to at least report whether any progress is being made. Which obviously in DN's case it wasn't.

I've just requested NC levels for DS mid-year but only because I have an impending referral to a community ped and want to use the scores (P scores in Yr2) to demonstrate impact of learning difficulty. What was interesting was that the teacher gave them to me (at my request) most willingly. However the head did mind! Very strange.

I do understand that development is not linear - they are "point in time" assessments.

Very interesting comments all.

Is the lack of information on your child's performance in fact the difference between good & mediocre schools?

A good school is on top of this data and monitoring it, so can easily pass it on to parents. But possibly also treats parents as an interersted party and as adults, and feels that they will use the information to support learning.

I am a school governor. We of course provide the NC levels at the end of KS1 and KS2. but we do try to avoid giving them at other times, although the children are tracked rigorously, and we could give the level any child is currently working at at the touch of a button.

The problem is that children do not progress in a linear fashion. In the course of a year a child could make no recordable progress for half the year, then shoot up two sub levels. If we gave a parent the NC level the week before they shot up, that would give an entirely false impression. Children often drop down a bit at the beginning of the year and have to do a bit of catching up. Once again, an NC level would be unhelpful. A child may stay at the same level in Msths, for example, because he hasn't yet been taught the skills necessary to move up- staying at the same level in that case is what should be happening.

A teacher should be able to give you an accurate picture of how your child is doing without giving a level- if they can't, then complain. If they are not giving the levels because they have something to hide, then complain. But don't get hung up on the numbers- they are only a tiny part of the picture

what are NC levels expected for the end of yr, would it be 1b? would a child who is behind be given a 1c or 1??

sorry end of yr1

seeker:

I can see your point regarding not reporting NC Levels except Y2/ Y6 - but... and I can only speak for our school... we weren't even told our children were dipping or on a plateau. Moreover, we clearly aren't seeing intervention with children who are behind.

So in our case, requesting NC Levels was getting the school to acknowledge a child was performing well below expected level and needed support (and we meant in school). What our school seemed to be adept at doing was avoiding clearly informing parents a child wasn't progressing as well as desired - to avoid work for them and upset with parents I suspect.

I'm afraid although I take your points seeker - if you are regularly reporting NC Levels then it seems to me that dips/ plateaus can be taken into account. I think the problem is that primaries aren't really concerned about the exit trajectory of their pupils - that's the next schools problem perhaps?

Also teachers can explain any dips or expected rises.In fact it would work even better as a parent could check if that rise had happened and if it hadn't worked with the school to make sure it did.

Just don't get educational benefit of keeping parents in the dark.