Does anyone else get fed up with the phonics method?

[ProbablyJustGas]

Maybe I'm a bit more stuck in my ways than I thought, but does anyone else get frustrated trying to stick to the synthetic phonics system when working with young DCs reading and spelling?

My stepdaughter's name ends in a y ("ee" sound). She knows how to pronounce her name, and how to write her name, but insists her name is spelled with a "yeh". This is because she's been taught that the letter "y" is a "yeh". I think that's misleading - the letter is "y", and the sounds it makes depends on where it is. "Yeh" at the beginning, yes, but "ee" when it follows a consonant at the end of a word ("carry"). If she's spelling her name out loud with sounds, she should say "ee" and write "y".

She has trouble writing my name, which starts with a "g" like in "general". In her mind, "g" is a "geh" and only a "geh" even though we tell her all the time that it has two sounds. She may not come across too many books with words like "gentle" or "scary" right now, but she will someday.

I didn't grow up with satpin and jolly phonics, so the method is just maddening to me sometimes. I don't want to undermine her teachers - DSD is finally making some progress reading with phonics when she can be arsed with decoding - but it feels like she's missing some important facts about the alphabet sometimes.

It's curmudgeon week on my end...

No, Families, they are assessing the children to see what they know, what to teach next, and where the gaps are - although I disapprove of calling it a 'mock' - how ridiculous. They should be doing this as a matter of course in day to day asessment, however.

the teacher is an idiot obviously concerned her teaching isn't up to scratch

Doing phonics with my DD has improved my spelling loads. I've a feeling that if they'd had that system when I was at school, I might have learnt to spell/read sooner.

Phonics was the main method of teaching reading in the UK for hundreds of years before importing "whole language/word" from the USA where is has left a legacy of low levels of literacy

Fair enough, Sunscorch, but how else was kipper supposed to convey it in writing?

First of all, it wasn't a criticism of how kipper conveyed the sounds. If they are an accurate representation of how her child is being taught, then that teaching is wrong, and that is what I was criticising.

If you were writing these words properly, as Letters and Sounds phonemes, you would do this:
Cod = /k/ /o/ /d/
Cat = /k/ /a/ /t/
There would not be a "proper" way to write the incorrect sounds that kipper initially presented, for obvious reasons.

Thanks ladies, it's a mixture of both - couldn't find a way to convey it in text, and myself (as a parent) not ever having been taught it......so it's Mummy (me) saying it wrong and not my child!! Yes, it should really be the "short and snappy" sound.... what should I type it as "tt!" and "dhh!" (??? lol). My child does say it correctly, of course, not at all like Mummy making it up as she goes along. This is the problem with using phonics when the rest of us have learnt it the old fashioned way. Just goes to show you can have As in English Language and English Literature and still not be able to teach reading to the current generation of primary schoolers, lol.

No, no, can't fault the school in that regard. Their phonics teaching looks right (at least according to Alphablocks, which is the only frame of reference I have).

It is very illuminating having fellow MNers pointing it out and discussing it, so I thank you all.

but kipper phonics is the old fashioned way

mrz - you are right of course, our own experience is only within our generation (clearly the one whose educators threw out phonics!). Maybe I should describe it as "out of date"; that's probably more accurate.

Is everyone going to get this phonics test??!

No most certainly not out of date kipper

Children in Y1 will take a short phonics test in June lasting about 5-10 mins

mrz - I mean they method that I was taught was out of date - it's not? You don't think phonics is better? (I was referring to the method I was taught, not phonics, by the way....)

Thank you for the info about the test! So does the phonics test have any bearing on the schools or the pupils' own records? I can hear a lot of the competitive state schools and the independents in our area scrambling to drill the children, so that they do well for the schools' reputation....... maybe that's why they aren't saying anything about it at our school.

There are no plans to publish results according to the government but watch this space. In the pilots schools did very badly and the evidence suggested most schools continued to use mixed methods and that a lot of whole word teaching.
So while whole word is discredited it is still very much happening ...just read MN to see the extent.

Thanks mrz!

I heard that children will have to score 32-34 out of 40 to pass the threshold for the test. I don't know what the government benchmark for children passing the threshold will be, but even getting 50% of all children reaching that level would be challenging.

But what sort of things are on this test, because nothing mentioned on this thread so far would floor my YR DD and she is certainly not alone in her class

I keep telling my reception dd that English is a very silly language... What I want to tell her is that phonics is crap. There, I said it. I wish I'd had the foresight to move back to the continent and let her learn to read and write in a logical straightforward language at the age of 6, then tackle English later, instead of throwing her to the wolves at barely 4 years old.

stealthsquiggle there are 20 real words and 20 made up words to decode

I wish I'd had the foresight to move back to the continent and let her learn to read and write in a logical straightforward language obviously through phonics BabyGiraffes

I have no idea what I was taught as a child mrz, call it what you want, but I would have preferred my dd to learn to read and write a language that makes sense and is written the way it is pronounced. Maybe I am too stupid to get phonics teaching in the UK but I honestly can't help my dd because I cannot 'hear' how the same sound is represented in different ways just for the sake of it.

I also have no idea how I learnt to read and write English from the age of 11 but there must have been a fair bit of whole word recognition and the acceptance that English spelling makes absolutely no sense.

Don't get me wrong, I love English and the idiosyncrasies of English spelling. I just wish my dd did not have to wade through it all at 4 1/2.

Thanks, mrz. As I understand it, DD's school (independent) escapes the strictures of NC once 'early years" is done, so I guess I will never know how they would all do at the end of Y1

No Independent schools can't formally take part

Just to add on the test front: I understand it consists of the teacher sitting with each child on their own showing 40 flash cards and asking the child to say the word / sound. So it's not a sit in a hall in silence type test but still a waste of teaching time but more formal than the current teacher assessment on the basis of everyday work levels.

We received a letter a couple of weeks ago asking all parents to ensure that children were in school for the week of the test (w/c 18 June). It sounds as if our school is taking it more seriously than others...

Just to add on the test front: I understand it consists of the teacher sitting with each child on their own showing 40 flash cards and asking the child to say the word / sound.

Not much different from individual reading or a normal phonics session then.

Letters home IS a bit over the top - assessments could be done the week after.

DD hated phonics, she was an utter utter sight reader. Luckily she had a lovely reception teacher who just told DD to do some art and craft while the rest of them did phonics. I shudder to think what DD would have been like if she'd been forced to do it...she was already reading way ahead by then.

It just doesn't suit everyone and it annoys me when schools are inflexible and won't recognise this.

(don't get me started on my hatred for number lines!!!!!)