Rough state- private perspective needed!

[jendot]

We moved 1.5yrs ago to a new area. I have 2 ds's one got a place in the local school which is small/ ofsted outstanding and he is settled and happy in every way.

The other is at another school on a 'rough' estate..school has endless problems controlling the children (and the parents) swearing is in common usage (even around the teachers) parents attack other parents and children/ children swear at parents, police always there etc etc He is of course on the waiting list for the 'nice' school but no place has become available in the 1.5yrs (we have just lost an appeal for a place too)

Now while we are VERY unhappy with the school/ standards/ educational opportunities etc DS is pretty happy there. Its an 'easy' ride. I consider him to be behind in all areas (except Maths and sport) and has some social/ emotional developmental special needs where as compared to his classmates (some of whom have REAL problems) he is a pretty average child. He falls between the kids who need real help and the G&T so is just left to plod along. He is not 'unhappy' but is not being stimulated / nurtured or encouraged in any way.

We have been looking at moving to him to a small independant school for the rest of his primary years (3.5yrs) it is a non selective school who are very nurturing and have an active special needs department and I think will encourage and nurture him into a higher level of achievement, (he will HAVE to go back into the state system for senior school and I think in order to enter the state senior school at a reasonable level he will need additional help from now on)

The cost to us financially for those years will be a big burden. But if we use our savings/ have no holidays/ no meals out etc we can just about afford it.

Ds doesn't want to move.... he is settled and has made friends. I feel like I have already dragged him half way across the country, dumped him in a dreadful school for 1.5yrs and now am going to yank him out and put him in a class of bright/ middle class kids..at a school who are going to have very high expectations of him, give him loads of homework and generally make his life difficult (compared to the easy ride he has so far been having) I also worry that he will stand out like a sore thumb as 'common' and 'thick'!
Ds's special needs mean that 'new' things/ things that change cause him big problems and anxiety. It took a year for him to really settle where he is.....

I hate being a parent! I hate having to make decisions that 'I' think are the correct ones for his future..steamrollering over what he thinks (but at 7 he is not capable of making a decision like this).

I could leave him where he is, coasting along, making innappropriate friends and then look back when he is older and say 'I wish I had moved him'.

Or I can move him and hope to god Ive made the right decision!

I don't even really know what I am asking...'Am I being unreasonable' maybe?

Tough one - I think I would leave him where he is. It would be a huge upheaval, and he's happy where he is. Perhaps I'm biased because my best friend's sister was sent to private school and my friend wasn't and it's still causing problems and resentment (from both sides!) years down the line.

If I were in your position, I think I'd focus on the fact that he's happy at school and not standing out due to his SN. I'd then spend the money that I would have spent on private education on Kumon or a tutor or similar.

Has he visited the private school? Is he good at making new friends? Are his current school friends "a good influence"?

Ragged- He is spending the day there on Monday! No current friends are most def not a 'good influence' he makes friends but not easily!

AP- I don't think the sibling thing will be a prob. Ds 2 is in year 5 so only has 1 year left at primary school we have given him the option of moving with his little bro for that year but he has categorically stated no way (he really likes his school) I see what you mean about not rocking the boat .....but he isn't really 'happy' just not 'unhappy'

I can apreciate that you are trying to do your best for your DS and impoverishing yourself would at least show you made every effort.
However, behind in everything except maths? well this is primary school and only English and maths really count. Boys are generally running behind the girls with English, and I'm sure that this is something you could do with him at home.
I suspect that both state primaries feed into the same secondary, so he would meet his "unsuitable" friends at some stage of his schooling anyway.
It sound as though he would loose some time settling in at the new school, so unless he goes and loves it I would leave him where he is and work with him at home to make sure he isn't under achieving his potential.
I would also start making more fuss to ensure that his current school are doing their best for him, eventually it becomes easier for a school to provide suport for a child than to attend endless meeting with his mother.
How about starting a thread detailing his problems, say where you think the school is failling him and see if some nice SENCO can point you in the right direction.

Why don't you like his current friends, OP? Also, what are the chances of a place coming up at the other primary in the next year or so? If there's a good one, I'd say stick where you are.

Completely anecdotal this, but a mum at my DS's inner city state school moved her DD in year 2 as she thought she wasn't being challenged sufficiently academically. The girl was happy at school, lots of friends and doing well. They moved her to a small private school and sadly it's never really worked. The school's okay, but they felt really let down by the pastoral care. Smaller classes, meant smaller choice of friends and the girls there were incredibly cliquey and sounds like they were quite cruel too. Some of the things the girls get up to in terms of teasing, etc would never be allowed at our school, so the parents have been quite shocked. On the academic side, they found she was behind a bit on specific subjects, so French, etc as she hadn't been taught that, but generally not at all. In fact she was streaks ahead at lots. The girl's probably moving back to our school for year 4. tbh, our school sounds far less problematic than your DS's, but am just saying this as there's more to be thought of than academia (which of course you know!).

Thanks for taking the time to reply :-) Your thoughts are really helpful.

Smee- I don't dislike his current friends, they are just parented differently to how I parent. I know I am being a snob (although grew up in poverty, still am def not 'middle class' although have reasonable house/ jobs etc) they all swear constantly, at adults aswell as when together. At 7 many are hanging about at the sweet shop swearing at old ladies of an evening....its normal to solve your problems by punching and kicking. They are just different to us. I understand that it is me that has the problem not them, they are all normal for that school/area! I see their older counterparts / siblings hanging about and they are just not how I would like my children to think it is acceptable to behave. I do understand that at senior school age he will have to choose his own friends and may choose to be like these lads and at that point there will be nothing I can do about it. But at 7 I feel like I should still be controlling who are the major influences in his life etc He will not likely go to senior school with most of them as the senior fed by this school is not our catchment senior school.

Smee- We have been waiting 1.5yrs for a place. It is single form entry...no one has left since reception! So no immediate hopes for a place. We have appealed for the school to take an extra pupil but it was refused.

I feel that at current school he will not have an opportunity to reach is potential (believe me I try with the school...the senco hides when she sees me coming I have been in so often). This is not academic potential...he is never going to be a brain surgeon however much money we throw at his education! I want him to have the opportunity to become a well rounded person. To have chance to learn an instrument/ to have swimming lessons/ to go on school trips/ to go to a school fair/ to have cookery lessons/ to be encouraged in art/ to have someone to listen to him read to be in a school where someone cares about him as a person...rather than a school where they desperatly try to stop the parents strangling each other and the kids from kicking off constantly!

I think having written all this down has concreted in my mind how unhappy I am and have been since he started there.

When I look at the education he is receiving in comparison to his older brother there is just such a MASSIVE yawning gap between the two. As his mum I can only do what I think is best for him...if that turns out to be the wrong decision then be it on my head :-(

That's so sad jendot. I'd have the same problems I'm sure. School does sound pretty grim to let that sort of behaviour carry on in school as well as out.

So sounds like you've made your mind up? If you do move him, I reckon you should keep what you've just written as it's so clear and logical. If he kicks off at new school and you start to have doubts look back at it to help you remember why you had to do it!

I think you should take him out. You've got a lot of good, cogent reasons for doing so, but it will be important for you to do this with a very positive attitude. Make your decision, then don't look back and second guess yourself. At 7 children are very much influenced by what their parents think. If you are positive, upbeat and clear, he will see this as a positive move. If you are ambivalent then he will be too. It's the RIGHT decision- keep saying this to yourself!

Is there not a third option? Could you get him into a different state school maybe further away- do you drive? You don't sound happy where he is so I would certainly be looking to move and probably easier sooner rather than later.

Are there any other options, you could look around other primaries that are better and nicer?

FWIW, I have just moved my children (age 6 and 9) from state to private, for similar reasons. I did LOADS of research, and chose a small private school which takes in all academic abilities, yet produces excellent results in Y6. Children go on to grammar, private or even "ordinary" state schools for secondary.

I was worried my dyslexic (and some social emotional issues too, has been on IEPs for it) son would be the "slow" one in class (at SATs he was 2 yrs behind where he should be). Interestingly, he really likes the new school, he works much harder and is excited (excited!for the first time) about things he is taught like science and history.

In his class of 16, 5 children are dyslexic or otherwise SEN. He is not the odd one out. In fact, it seems that it is very common for parents (who can afford it) of boys who are behind, to move them to private around age 7/8. He was one of 4 new boys.

The only thing I don't like is that everyone asks us why we don't go skiing , but I can live with that and laugh at it.

However, I would not recommend private to everyone due to the cost. So maybe apply to move him to a nicer primary? And get a tutor/Kumon/home ed on the side for a bit?

Thanks Smee

Its funny how writing it down somehow helps sort out that crazy jumble of thoughts that go round in your head all day!

I just have to hope the trial day goes well :-)

tgger- I have rung all 27 primaries within a 30 minute drive....4 had spaces. 3 of which are ofsted satisfactory schools with bad reputations and 1 is in special measures! Feels like an out of the frying pan into the fire option!!

Chandon- really glad your move worked out :-) Glad I am not the only one. Thanks for sharing. We most certainly won't be going skiing...going to be tenting for us fo the next few years LMAO

I hope it goes well at his trial day, as you sound decided and I am frankly amazed at the lack of other primary school places available where you live. In our area primaries startt emptying in the junior years as parents intending to move their DS to Indy for senior panic about entrance exams and move them earlier.
Mine are at Indy schools and its probably the best money we have ever spent, but having said that it's easily affordable for us and I do apreciate that for some people its a huge sacrifice, which is why I think people should always explore all their options - I'm sorry you don't seem to have any! Once you've appealed you've done evrything you can.
I hope it all works out and at least you know DS will be at a different senior school with different friends.

jendot-how old is your younger son? If I was you I would move him into the indepedent school and still keep him on the waiting list for your first son's school.
If your son has friends he isn't going to want to move, but if you think it's the right decision (and feel you can afford it), then just go ahead and do it, as you are obviously very unhappy about his school and you will regret it if you keep him there.

Oldisgold- yes we are planning to keep him on the waiting list for ds's school. If and when a place becomes available we will have to consider the pros and cons of transferring again!! (There is a limit to how many times I can realistically move him..this will be his 3rd move in 4 school years! reception and 1 before we moved house / yr 2 and 3 where he is now and then the new school!)

Sorry 2nd move in 4 years!

How did the taster day go?

Well, in that case I hope it goes well on Monday and it is money well spent.

If you can pay the fees then I would move him like a shot, take the finances out of it and give him the chance of a good grounding same as his big brother. I would have very similar feelings to you and I think that given you have no other acceptable state options it makes perfect sense. I have just this week moved my DD, YR1 from a state school to a lovely prep school and have left her brother who is in yr4 in the state school.

I moved her because she was miserable and has never settled and because I couldn't get her a place in any state school i was happy with or one where I could do the 2 school runs. I left my son in the state school because it is a good school, it just didn't suit DD and because he is very happy. It would have caused him far more upset to move him just because i was moving his sister and so that I could be financially fair. Neither child has any idea that the new school is a private school, I don't see any reason to discuss it with them but we have been clear that DD has moved because she needs a chance to be as happy as DS.

I truly believe that we owe our chldren the chance of a good education and sometimes that means that treating our children equally doesn't mean treating them identically.

We moved our dd from State to Private in September, she is in Yr2. Her old school was technically a good school, most of the children had good behaviour, but her year had a number of 'challenging' children and that was reflected in the class. Like your son, our dd was just 'middling' along.

The move went well, as I have said before, it was worse thinking about it than doing it. There are huge differences, i.e. homework is one, she is still getting used to the fact that she has something to do every night. However, she loves it and is thriving. There are some downsides, the journey to school and she misses her old friends, it isn't always so easy to find other people to play with when you are being left out of a game, when there are only 16 (8 girls), in your class.

Make sure you really can afford it, I see a cheque going out every term for £2,000 and it really hurts - that is the reality that you will have to face. It is OK to say you will go without holidays, but will you? really?

Our dd like your son, is probably not going to be a 'high flyer', she had a bit of catching up to do and what she has learnt since being there is very secure, but there are gaps in what she learnt at her old school, which does have a knock on effect, but she seems to be managing OK at the moment. What is good, is that in a smaller class there is more 'guided' work and the children can't 'hide', or 'get lost'.

I found it to be one of the hardest decisions we have ever had to make, but think we have got it right now.

Hope you got on alright on Monday.

Thanks so much for all your input. Im glad to hear others have made the move successfully!

We had a big chat about it and we definatly are going to move him. Hopefully to the school he is visiting providing there are no major disasters!!

Taster day has been moved by the school to this Friday- which suits me as providing all is well we can get the application process sorted next week in time for him to start after 1/2 term.

Unfortunatly he told his current class teacher at school all about it today..and I was met by her after school. She was ok, they have lost 3 other children from his class this school year so I think she may be beginning to take it personally (which is SO not the case as she is lovely). I keep thinking of all the things I should have said to her, instead of mumbling into my boots that its just a taster day to see what he thinks of it, we haven't made any decisions etc..COWARD lol!

KTK9- I see what you are saying about the fees. It is going to be painful writing that cheque. But we can just about afford it. We can pay the mortgage/ bills/ school fees and eat without too much bother there just wont be much left at the end of it all...currently we are used to going out to dinner when we like and not worrying too much about it! (I guess that is usual life for most people, we are just used to having that bit extra!)

Will let you know how it all pans out :-)

I can understand your dilemma. Especially from the perspective of your son's anxiety in relation to a move. Could you consider leaving him where he is but invest in some tutoring. My dd went for tutoring at a KipMcGrath centre (there are alternative tutor groups). She really enjoyed it and improved greatly in Maths and english.

Essentially he could stay where he is happy, but improve his ability and confidence without a major change or the large financial impact.

In addition, if you did privately educate he may struggle later with the transition back into state education.

uggmum - that's not my experience. Around 40% of children at DS's prep go back into state education at 13, and most do very, very well. Parents just need to make sure you don't isolate themselves and their DC's by only socialising with other Prep parents / children.

Make sure he has friends / has hobbies / does sport etc out in the general community and the transition back into state won't be a problem ime.

Uggmum- its not really so much the academic side of schooling that is the problem. While he is behind and would benefit from extra help and encouragement. Its more his social and emotional welfare which is the problem at the current school. All the swearing/ parents fighting/ lack of opportunities etc

He (amazingly) seems quite excited about the idea of the move at the moment. We decided to talk to him about it rather than 'around' it as we have been until now. When he is stressed he chews his top lip until it bleeds or chews the tag in his top.. neither of these signs have yet shown themselves! I think providing they make a fuss of him on Friday he may be ok with the idea...

Jendot - we found the same, chatted about it openly and stressed it was just to see what it was like and could be something to think about etc. and were surprised how keen she was to go along.

Afterwards we didn't say too much, just that we would all sit and have a chat about it over the weekend (two days away) and by then she said she would like to 'try' it out, we both nearly fell over, but I think she could see that it was a much nicer environment to be in and of course the excitment of being the new one, new uniform etc., Once she had expressed an interest in going, we just excentuated the great things about it.

One good thing, as diabolo says, is that friendships (that you want to keep), will have been made and our dd still see a few from her old school, which keeps some continuity

Best of luck and let us know how he gets on - bet he will love it!