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Primary education

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Original poster

anyone ever successfully pointed out that a teacher was wrong?

45 replies

abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 19:51

Ok, this is going to seem odd as I'm a secondary teacher myself, so I should know the 'system' but I'm not sure how to broach this one.

My DS1 is in year 2 and has been moved to a lower 'group' in his class. When we asked why, the teacher said it was so that he could have 1:1 support with his handwriting- fair enough, it is bad (to the point that we've considered having him tested for dyspraxia). But she assured DH he would still be pushed in line with his ability. OK, if that works, I totally see her reasoning, and she's brilliant for getting my DS the support he needs.

However, the homework he's brought home this week is way below what he's been doing. He could have completed it 2 years ago- albeit with messy writing.

I am meeting with her on Wednesday to discuss his progress, and I want to tell her that she has spectacularly missed the point with my son. Obviously this will not go sown well, but I'm certain I'm right.

She seems to judge his ability based on the fact that he cannot physically write very well- he therefore rarely finishes his work. This means he doesn't get onto more difficult stuff. So he's not progressing. Now I'm not one of those mothers who thinks 'all her geese are swans' but my son is on the higher side of average when it comes to literacy. It is clear to me that it is the physical act of writing he struggles with, not the understanding behind it.

I know handwriting is an issue, but it's a side issue, surely? He should be taught at his ability level and given handwriting practice on top?

As a teacher, though, I know we are often defensive when accused of being 'wrong' by a parent. I don't want to be 'that woman who thinks she knows best'. Any advice (from primary teachers or parents who've dealt with similar) on how best to broach this for the best outcome? I just want to get the best for my son.

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Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 20:12

And if anyone has any advice on the handwriting issue that would be appreciated also, btw.

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startail · 29/01/2012 20:17

Of course he should!
As a messy writing RG graduate married to a totally illegible writing Cambridge graduate, I couldn't agree more.
If you judged DH on his writing he'd still be in Y1

Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 20:18

I'd pair him with a child who could scribe, or an adult on occasion. Get him to record his responses, there are a lot of tools designed for that. How about using a laptop or Alphasmart for some things?
Whilst working on the handwriting as a separate issue to his actual thinking and ability.
I get challenged all the time, by parents, peers and by the children. Isn't that the point of being part of a team? To make you think?

Hassled · 29/01/2012 20:19

In fairness to the teacher, if he can't put his understanding down on paper, if he can't demonstrate his knowledge of interesting vocabulary in his writing etc, how can she know? If he struggles to write, he'll struggle to write quickly - and that will impact on quality in a classroom environment where there are time constraints.

I sympathise with you - my Dyspraxic DS2 had the same vast gap between his obvious intelligence, his reading, his comprehension and his vocabulary, and what was actually on paper. Frustrating for him and everyone else.

Talk to the SENCo, push for a referral to check out the possible Dyspraxia. My DS2 was taught to touch-type and uses a laptop all the time, and at last has been able to demonstrate his ability.

Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 20:21

'if he can't demonstrate his knowledge of interesting vocabulary in his writing etc, how can she know? '

It's her job to think of a way he can show his abilities if the conventional methods aren't working for him.

mrz · 29/01/2012 20:22

he cannot physically write very well- he therefore rarely finishes his work.
I bet both your DH and you finished your work though startail Wink

If his writing is the issue perhaps he should start at the more difficult "stuff" rather than the easy ... you could suggest that to his teacher. However I'm not sure how this will work with long pieces of writing.

choccyp1g · 29/01/2012 20:25

But surely all Y2 children can think faster than they can write?

Nearly all of the writing they do is for the purpose of practising writing, not to actually show their knowledge of space exploration.

Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 20:27

Writing frames help, then he doesn't waste so much time doing the basics and can work on the real point of the exercise. I agree, get the SENCO actively involved.

TheFallenMadonna · 29/01/2012 20:33

She should know though. DS had awful writing, but had his ability in other areas recognised. He was in a high literacy group. The higher level stuff should be given from the start - it's not a race to reach it. She may disagree with you about his ability though - I'm sure that's happened to you as a teacher!

Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 20:35

His writing isn't completely illegible most of the time, it's just messy and he's slow. He does have a good vocabulary and a decent understanding of punctuation.

He wrote a set of instructions for homework recently (before the group move) and was managing imperative verbs, connectives etc with no problems at all. This week he was given a worksheet taken from the jolly phonics system working on 'ee' and 'or' sounds Hmm (his reading is not an issue at all, he's on stage 7 of the oxford literacy web- they do a range or reading schemes but that's the one he's got today)

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IndigoBell · 29/01/2012 20:35

Handwriting Advice

I don't know what you should say to the teacher - but I do think you should put a lot of effort into improving his handwriting, now while he's young.

Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 20:38

ee and or? She's probably linking it to spelling and handwriting practise.

Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 20:39

Fallenmadonna, I know it sounds like I'm biased. But I am an English teacher, I know what I'm talking about re writing levels. Honestly. I'm not saying he's massively above average, but he's not below it. And lots of the stuff to move him to the next level is skills based- variety of sentence types etc- he's not being taught these skills in the bottom group so he can't progress. It's so frustrating it makes me want to cry.

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Louboo2245 · 29/01/2012 20:41

My nephew has recently gone through something similar.
When in year 2 we (as in the whole family) started to think something wasn't quite right with my DN. His mathematical ability and verbal reasoning were very high, yet his literacy and writing skills were very poor. My sister had various meetings and brought her concerns up regularly at parents evening with his teacher (who was the SENCO) to no avail
He is now in year 4 and my DS paid for him to have a Dyslexia test. It came back that he is Dyslexic and Dypraxic. School have now had to take notice but it has taken a lot of pushing and a CAF.
I think sometimes the only way is to persevere and keep pushing your point if you think you are right!

Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 20:41

He's beyond that, though, in his spelling. And if he needs handwriting practice, then fine, but can't he have that on top of his normal work?

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Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 20:44

That's how I do it with the couple in my class that need support for handwriting. Extra. They also use doodle pads, painting and tracing, not just handwriting.
Where is mrz when you need her? This sort of question is right up her street.

Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 20:44

Louboo, that is very frustrating. I hope your nephew is getting the support he needs now. This is what I want to avoid, tbh. Which is why I don't want to 'get her back up' if I can help it. I just want the best for my son. This is the first issue I've had with the school, they have been very supportive and wonderful for both my children until now.

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mrz · 29/01/2012 20:47

What stage is he on in the other reading schemes?

Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 20:48

Taa Daaa!

It's like the Candyman but faster. Say her name and she appears. Smile

Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 20:49

Dustinthewind, I've printed off some 'story sheets' for him to do at home. They have pictures at the top and handwriting lines at the bottom, and he has to write something every day. He can write a story about the picture, or just describe what he sees, whatever, just to get him practicing his writing. He's spending aboiut 15 minutes a day after school on it. Do you think this is wise? I don't want to put him off for life. We've tried pencil grips and special pens, not much help. His best writing is on his magna-doodle!

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Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 20:51

MrsZ, he is on 'box 6' in his class, but not sure of the top of my head what that equates to across the schemes. We've had some of the 'magic key' stories in the ORT and moved on a level or 2 since then.

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Dustinthewind · 29/01/2012 20:53

I think 15 minutes is great and 20 would be too much. How is he at dot to dot and tracing? Although I should just shut up now, because mrz is the one who really knows her stuff here.

Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 20:56

Please don't shut up, dustinthewind, I need as many perspectives as possible and your advice is really helping!

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kumquatsarethelonelyfruit · 29/01/2012 20:57

This is exactly what happened to my DS. He was reading ORT 12 in reception, verbally excellent in science and maths BUT there were big problems with his written work. He was never sufficiently challenged and ended up being kept in at playtimes to complete written work. He was miserable. I went in loads of times but to no avail. He is now home educated and we are pretty sure he is dyspraxic (which the school failed to consider). He gets one to one with his handwriting but we also do loads of oral projects so that he is learning at his own pace. It is definitely working for him. The downside is (like you) I was a secondary school teacher and had planned to return to work so I've lost out on all the now.

Original poster
abbierhodes · 29/01/2012 21:02

Erm...dot-to-dots etc...well, he's not very accurate. Can't colour 'in the lines'. Slow at dressing for PE (though loves running around), puts things on inside out and back to front, no concept of left and right. He does a martial art and struggles to coorsinate his movements. He's passed his first two gradings though, mostly due to his excellent theoretical knowledge.
I think dyspraxia is a definite possibility.

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