anyone ever successfully pointed out that a teacher was wrong?

[abbierhodes]

Ok, this is going to seem odd as I'm a secondary teacher myself, so I should know the 'system' but I'm not sure how to broach this one.

My DS1 is in year 2 and has been moved to a lower 'group' in his class. When we asked why, the teacher said it was so that he could have 1:1 support with his handwriting- fair enough, it is bad (to the point that we've considered having him tested for dyspraxia). But she assured DH he would still be pushed in line with his ability. OK, if that works, I totally see her reasoning, and she's brilliant for getting my DS the support he needs.

However, the homework he's brought home this week is way below what he's been doing. He could have completed it 2 years ago- albeit with messy writing.

I am meeting with her on Wednesday to discuss his progress, and I want to tell her that she has spectacularly missed the point with my son. Obviously this will not go sown well, but I'm certain I'm right.

She seems to judge his ability based on the fact that he cannot physically write very well- he therefore rarely finishes his work. This means he doesn't get onto more difficult stuff. So he's not progressing. Now I'm not one of those mothers who thinks 'all her geese are swans' but my son is on the higher side of average when it comes to literacy. It is clear to me that it is the physical act of writing he struggles with, not the understanding behind it.

I know handwriting is an issue, but it's a side issue, surely? He should be taught at his ability level and given handwriting practice on top?

As a teacher, though, I know we are often defensive when accused of being 'wrong' by a parent. I don't want to be 'that woman who thinks she knows best'. Any advice (from primary teachers or parents who've dealt with similar) on how best to broach this for the best outcome? I just want to get the best for my son.

That should be coordinate!

DNephew was (finally) assessed by Ed Psych and OT last year (he's Yr.4, DSis has expressed concern re his physical ability to write and do other fine motor skills things since Nursery).

Assessment was that he has a weak pelvis, shoulders and core muscles. Apparently more common in boys, particularly if they were born by C-Section (OT didn't know if this was chicken or egg, whether weaknesses caused lack of progress or whether VB strengthens muscle groups).

He was given a group of exercises to do (will check with DSis if she remembers what they were and let you know tomorrow), is allowed to use laptop for extended writing tasks, does not have to date and title work (to save tiring his muscles) and also has a selection of pencil grips. These have made a huge difference to the level of work he is producing. His statement suggests scribe/word procesor for assessment tests.

HTH

I have to pop off for a bit to mark some coursework, but I will check back later, so please keep the responses coming.
Thank you so much for all the responses so far- it really helps.

Things to remember:

Upright working surfaces promote fine motor skills. Examples of these are: vertical chalkboards; easels for painting; flannel boards; lite bright; magnet boards (or fridge); windows and mirrors; white boards, etc. Children can also make sticker pictures; do rubber ink-stamping; use reuseable stickers to make pictures; complete puzzles with thick knobs; use magna-doodle and etch-a-sketch as well. The benefits for these include: having the child's wrist positioned to develop good thumb movements; they help develop good fine motor muscles; the child is using the arm and shoulder muscles.

Activities To Develop Handwriting Skills
There are significant prerequisites for printing skills that begin in infancy and continue to emerge through the preschool years. The following activities support and promote fine motor and visual motor development:
Body Stability
The joints of the body need to be stable before the hands can be free to focus on specific skilled fine motor tasks.
Wheelbarrow walking, crab walking, and wall push-ups.
Toys: Orbiter, silly putty, and monkey bars on the playground.

www.northumberlandcaretrust.nhs.uk/services/services-files/community-health-service-files/childrens-occupational-therapy/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20Upper%20Limb.pdf

www.northumberlandcaretrust.nhs.uk/services/services-files/community-health-service-files/childrens-occupational-therapy/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20Handwriting.pdf

I use a lot of the exercises from this book if I have someone who could benefit. Not just children with dyspraxic traits.
www.amazon.co.uk/Take-Ten-Sharon-Drew/dp/1855034387/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327871371&sr=1-1
SENCO might have one.

Children need to have stability at the trunk and shoulders so they can
use their hands effectively. Think of a crane or a large digger ? your hand
is the end part of the crane or digger ? the grasp part which is dependent
on all the other parts being secure and firmly under control otherwise
whatever you do with that hand, it will be very hard to make it behave the
way you want it to.
Sports:
? Any kind of climbing activities (e.g.: in adventure playgrounds, climbing
walls) or that involves whole body and shoulder movement such as swimming.
Tai Kwando, judo, tennis, cricket etc.
Games and Exercises:
? Wheelbarrow walking: - walk forward on straight arms whilst support given
at the lower part of the body - gradually move support down from thigh to knee.
Try races and obstacle courses .
Moving heavy items such as stacking chairs, moving PE equipment,
carrying books, wiping the board, ringing the bell, holding door open etc.
? Complete activities where you have to reach up e.g. wipe the black board;
paint a picture on paper stuck on the wall or put books away on high shelves.
cleaning windows
washing the car
Play dough writing: flatten it on desk or table and use a pencil to write in it.
For those that press too hard, the letters and lines come out all torn up so
they get immediate feedback to lighten their pressure.
? Writing on corrugated cardboard ? encourage the child not to flatten the
bumps on the cardboard.
? Writing on tin foil backed with cardboard ? encourage the child not to rip the
foil when they write.
? Painting: using a soft bristled brush, have child paint lines of various
colours from left to right across paper. Encourage child to use consistent
pressure so that each line is the same width across the page (may need
lines to ?stay between? drawn on paper). Also encourage child to only use
the tip of the brush.

Mrsz, there are some fantastic tips there! Thank you! Are you a SENCO?

Yes I'm a primary SENCO

He sounds exactly like my son in year 2. I have had similar worries, don't assume the teacher will be upset to see you, I was pleasently surprised when I went to see ours ( I am a teacher too). We haven't had the easier work problem but he is on the lower tables for some subjects, particularly where lots of writing is involved. Staff are very worried that he compares himself to others and so have him sitting with others with similar writing ability to try and prevent him worrying about how much x has written! The teacher was also open to stretching him in other ways so he has extra tasks to do in maths homework and he is able to choose books from home to read as he is on chapter books and the selection at school was limited in his class. He has exercises to do from the ot to help with handwriting and sitting him with kids with similar issues allows them to benefit from these too. Hope your meeting goes well.

Can you look into getting him a private handwriting coach?

I think it very much depends on the culture within the school as to whether the teacher will take your "input" as constructive or not. Some teachers are very sensitive and bloody minded about being right even when it's completely obvious that they are wrong. Some like to work with parents for the benefit of the child - you won't know who you dealing with till you have a chat.
Ds's reception teacher had decided he couldn't read because he couldn't write and his expressive speech was poor - it didn't matter what I said he was reading at home she just wouldn't believe me, there was no point in trying to convince her she was wrong, so he read & enjoyed library books piched at his level but it is trickier to go your own way with written work.

I had a similar problem with my Y2 DS in maths. I am a secondary teacher too, and I have succeded without falling out with anybody, I hope.

My DS was a slow starter in maths, coudn't count properly in reception and at the end of Y1 when I noticed that he can't add above 10 I pushed him along a bit and he slowly improved.

In Y2, I noticed that that he was mostly with Y1 children in maths and that the work was far to easy for him. I spoke to the teacher, the DH and gave examples of what he could do, but both assured me that he would be differentiated appropriately. Strangely, they wouldn't give me his level or predictions? On another meeting I told her that I have now googled the app grid and a couple of 'I can' statements and told her where I thought DS is at with his maths.

His class teacher then agreed to tell me what she does with the Y2 children and I could practice with my DS, and that he could do the test with the Y2s. However, when she told me I realised that DS could probably already do that. I checked with DS and before I could tell his teacher she told me that she would assess DS's maths - when I picked him up from school that day she told me that DS was as good as some of her best children in Y2 and that he would be with Y2 now. Yeah!!!

It took 6 weeks to get there though!!!

OP I would strongly consider the possibility that your son is Dyspraxic.
Your post at 21:02 adding details about struggling with clothing, differentiating left and right, difficulties with co-ordinating movement would all be indicators.
Strictly speaking to diagnose Dyspraxia there are a number of markers-

1. high verbal scores compared with performance scores on the WISC (or whatever general ability test used in your area- usually a Psychologst, education or clinical), 2. overall within normal or above average IQ and 3. signficant gross and fine motor difficulties as assessed (usually) by an OT.

Dyspraxia would impact hugely on your child's ability to produce written work particularly at speed or in large volumes. Which is to re-iterate exactly what you have said- it's not that he doesn't understand, it's that he cannot generate the written work to demonstrate his grasp of concepts. mrz has given great advice on strategies to improve hand writing....it may be that even with remediation +/- physical supports (sloped writing surface, supportive chair etc) that your child still cannot produce the volume of written work at the quality required. In that case, producing printed written work may be the best way to go.

Teacher would still needs to grasp that it's a physical issue and I am surprised she wasn't the one to spot it.

Hi abbierhodes

I'm sure many posters are correct in suggesting that difficulties with his writing need sorting out and I suspect Hassled is making a fair point. If the teacher hasn't had the chance to really work closely with your son and see his comprehension/ abilities - and her main form of documentation of ability is through written work - then yes, I can see why he has been moved down a group.

I think you do have to go to battle about providing work to ability - but I think you'll be better off acknowledging that you may be in a difficult position with this because the likelihood is that it is that written work is used for evidence of ability in your DS's class.

My advice is this. Try and persuade teacher that ability is good - but written ability is problematic. See if they have picked up on this as well - if not ask them to test comprehension through oral questioning, in addition to written work.

Try and get the SENCo involved regarding writing. There have been a number of good suggestions above and on other feeds about occupational therapy with writing issues.

This won't be solved overnight - but if you're determined to work out what the problem is and source a solution (with or without school support) you'll win for your DS.

I had a lot of addvice from MN about doing your own thing if you don't like what's happening with school - they were absolutely right. You can do a lot at home too - and frankly I enjoy the time with my girls and although the improvements have been coming on slowly, they are now quite obvious for both girls.

I wouldn't get too upset about one piece of homework. Perhaps she gave him something he didn't have to think too hard about so he could focus his energy on what it looks like. Sounds perfectly fine to me. It IS hard to do both if you struggle with writing. I would go in with questions rather than the attitude of 'how do I tell her she's wrong?'. Seems odd that 1 group lower would be doing what he was doing 2 years ago - there must be some reason. Ask to see what he's done in school recently as well and tell her your concerns. Give her a chance to justify herself and perhaps convince you of her strategy.

when are we going to stop placing handwriting as the most important skill for our children? Handwriting is not the key sign of 'intellect'!!!

True ebarmley - look at doctor's handwriting! My Dh is v clever but I literally cannot read his writing. I'm planning on trying to learn touch typing alongside DS when he's a little older.

MerryMarigold - I agree, go in with questions, there may be a good reason behind the teacher's action, and then come in with your concerns. At least you keep a good relationship with the teacher.

Have you come across the OT programme 'Speed Up' or 'Write from the Start'? I use both those with primary school kids to improve handwriting. What about 'Clicker' to support writing in class? I always ask kids to type one piece at the beginning of year - with no names - so I can evaluate writing without being swayed by handwriting. Hope some of this help. Good luck.

loads of brilliant advice here already, but I thought it was worth mentioning that someone on a course the other day suggested holding lots of small objects in the palm of the hand and dropping them one by one onto the table (counters or beads) and balancing paper on the palm of the hand and then scrunching it up using only the hand in question, then flattening it out again using just that hand. This can get to the muscles other exercises find hard to reach.

Also, is it just the one item of homeword? Perhaps he was given the wrong sheet. I have done this