CofE school. Is this appropriate?

[Jezabelle]

My DD (yr1) attends our local village school. I send her there because it is our only school within walking distance, (about 30 seconds away!) We are very much a part of our community and DD knew most of her class mates before going to school. I like the school's atmosphere and DD is generally happy there and doing well.

It is a CofE school. We are not a religious family. I certainly did not object to this when I sent her there. I was happy for her to visit the local church at Christmas/ Easter and sing hymns in assembly. I am also happy for her to hear Bible stories, (although I would prefer that it was done in the context that "this is a story but some people who are Christians believe it is true"). I am happy for my children to grow up to believe in God/ Jesus etc. I feel that this is their choice entirely.

However, DD was very upset this morning. She told me that her class teacher was talking about pets dying. I do not object to this, but DD explained that her teacher was explaining that God looks after your pets when they die. I do object to this being told as fact. I feel that it's such a fundemental and important subject and is very much the place of the parent to choose what they tell their own child. We had a family berievement when DD was very young and DD was not told that he was "looked after by God".

Part of the reason I feel so strongly about this is that there is a child in the class whose dad has recently been diagnosed with terminal cancer. He probably does not have long left. I don't know whether her parents are religious or not or what they will tell her when the time comes, but if it were my DH who was ill, I would not tell DDs that he "went to Heaven" because that is not what I believe. Therefore to be told this in school as if it were fact, would be confusing and potentially damaging for her.

I know that they are giving a TA some sort of berievement training due to there being 2 parents with cancer within the school. I hugely respect that. I know that a child berievement course would not advocate telling a child that their loved one had gone to Heaven. (Obviously this would be discussed if this is what the child was told at home and then brought it up in discussion).

So, I was considering going in and talking to the class teacher or Head and asking what their policy was on discussing death within school. Do you think I have a leg to stand on or is this just what I have to accept being it's a CofE school?

I think that you just have to accept it because you have chosen to send your child to a CofE school. I am not particularly religious but dd also goes to a CofE school (like you it is our nearest catchment one). When dd comes home and talks about death and angels etc (she's in reception) I just say that yes some people believe that and some people don't. To flatly say 'no the school is wrong' I believe, would confuse her (and in fact I don't feel for certain that it IS wrong - I have no idea!) And actually I think most young children would be comforted by the idea that if a loved one/pet died they are somewhere safe and there is a chance that the child will see them again. Why did this idea upset your child?

We tell children many 'lies' when they are young (Santa, toothfairy, Easter bunny) but they don't seem overly traumatised when they find out the truth when they're older. If I were the head I would wonder why you'd chosen to send your child to a school which clearly goes against your principles. Did your child have to go to this school? If there was no choice you have my sympathies, it must be really frustrating.

What the teacher said is not mainstream CofE belief, but a platitude along the lines of the toothfairy to make the children feel better.

Christians do not believe God looks after pets when they die.

actually many Christians do believe that. Op i think it is outrageous that you are thinking of giving the school grief when they are teaching children in the manner appropriate for the school. It's not even as though the afterlife of pets is a controversial subject anyway. The teacher will be discussing this because it has come up as an issue in the class. Ie someone's pet has died. What exactly do you think should be the response of a teacher in a Christian school? Surely you are able to see that describing a faith as a load of stories is completely out of the question! Faith schools exist so that people are able to send their children to school safe in the knowledge that their faith will NOT be dismissed as a load of stories!

A lot don't - myself included :)
But it's not a matter of salvation.

It's an odd thing for a teacher to say at a C of E school as pets do not have souls and therefore cannot go to heaven . It is to be expected that the school has a focus on Christianity, you have chosen a faith school after all.

My point exactly, Durham....

Hi Jezabelle

I think this is an ideal opportunity to discuss that people believe all sorts of things and that although many people consider themselves Christian, there are a number of different groups (Quakers, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Christadelphians, Mormons, etc..., etc...) and within all these different groups there are all sorts of differently held views. This is also the same of Judaism or Islam or Hinduism, etc..., etc...

How you want to discuss/ handle who's right and who's wrong in their views is entirely up to you. But this is your opportunity to discuss what you believe with your daughter and gently introduce her to your view - not necessarily to insist she follows your lead, but to help her understand that you believe one thing and other people believe another, but you all can get on.

Sorry I know this is all a bit 'CBeebies politically correct world time' - but I think it is important to start early teaching children that there is a huge range of beliefs and that's o.k. I sincerely think the world would be a better place if we were all a bit more tolerant of other peoples views.

Jezabelle:

I do include myself in that learning to be more tolerant bit!

Also just occurs that it may be useful to explain a lot of people get a great deal of comfort from their beliefs.

Passmyglass - CoE schools don't exist so that people can send their children to school safe in the knowledge that they will be told that christianity is true. They exist because the church was the first institution to set up free schools in the country at a time when 99% of people were at least nominally christian, and they have been inheritited by the state system. Lots of people don't choose to send their children to CoE schools it is just what their local/village school is.

Jezabelle - If it has bothered you and upset your DD by all means go and ask the teacher about it (just like you might about anything else in school that was bothering you).

I do think the line that 'you chose a CoE school so you have to accept anything they decide to tell your child about religion' is tosh.

I would go and have a word, as you say - in the context of their policy on berevement, but also to find out if it is the school's policy to make definative pronouncements about the nature God, rather than factual statements of the 'some people believe', 'the Christian church teaches' etc.. variety.

It does sound like a platitude along the lines of Santa and the tooth fairy, but still I think teachers should be careful about what they say, since they are taken as 'gospel' by young kids. I don't think it would be OK for a teacher to tell their class that 'all good children get presents from Santa on xmas eve', as some kids don't, but at the same time they don't have to tell them the hard truth either - just be a bit evasive .

You can deal with this yourself at home as your dd is old enough to have thi sort of discussion with you. I don't think you should approach the school

Why was she upset with the idea that God looks after pets when they die?

It sounds like you are more upset on behalf of the other parents in the school who may share your beliefs.

It is worthwhile for you to ask the Head what their policy is on discussing death in school if it concerns you but I don't think you'd have a leg to stand on if you objected to it based on the fact that you are not a Christian.

You're going to have some interesting conversations with your DD if you don't agree with what she is being told and what all her friends believe as Christians.

Thanks very much for all your responses.

I may have not made myself clear, but I have never told her that God is not real or certainly never that it is rubbish etc. I am very respectful of other's religions and other people's beliefs. I give them the same respect as I would expect. DD has come home at Christmas and told me that "Jesus was born on Christmas day", I expained that "Yes, some people believe that Jesus was born on the day that we now call Christmas. . . " I do not want them to tell children that Christianity is "all a load of stories", but find it uncomfortable that Christianity is taught in exactly the same way as History.

I understand how one might tell a bereaved child that s/he has gone to Heaven, even if that is not their personal belief just to give the child some comfort. A good friend of mine did this after her DH died suddenly when her DCs were very young. I am not critisising that. I do however know, (from previous close links with a child bereavement charity), that this can be difficult for a child who then eventually comes to realise that their parent does not believe this after all.

I also understand that some people talk about heaven in the same way they talk about the tooth fairy or Santa, and to say that "...they don't seem overly traumatised when they find out the truth when they're older." May be true for a child who has not been seriously bereaved, but may be hugely traumatic for those who have.

I do talk to DD about other people's beliefs, and after reading your post pastsellbydate I think I've got some homework to do!

"It sounds like you are more upset on behalf of the other parents in the school who may share your beliefs." Actually this is probably true naturalbaby! Although I do not know the beliefs of the man just diagnosed with terminal cancer, they are friends of mine and I, (like so many others) found the news extremely upsetting and I care that they are dealing with the whole issue in the best possible way at school.

Apologies for mamoth post!

If you don't like the Christian teaching at a Christian school then send her elsewhere. Sorry to be blunt. And no - I have no religion so not biased.

You are being ridiculous. You send your child to a religious school, but you don't want them to teach their faith?

I don't think you do respect others beliefs, because if you did, you wouldn't be bothered by teaching of heaven, would you?

The heaven thing is a pretty big part of Christians beliefs, Christians believe that to be the truth so why are you do shocked/angry at that being taught in a c of e school?

Why do you have more problems with that than the nativity and Easter stories which will both be taught as fact in a c of e school

You sent her to a CofE school so you can't really complain that she's being taught things you, as a non-Christian, don't believe.

We were taught all that as well, not a Christian school, but I guess it was just standard. Honestly, does it matter? Most people figure out their own beliefs when they're adults.

dear OP,

I am sorry you are having problems with issues surrounding death.heaven etc, but I would tend to agree with other replies that this is to be expected in a CofE school, and mayeb your role is to provide the balance with other opinions /beliefs of other traditions.... you could talk about what hindu/muslim/buddhist/agnostics/atheists/humanists/pagans believe...

is using the phrase 'heaven' really so bad? do we know what happens after death? sure the physical body is cremated or buried, so returns to the earth in some form, (unless ashes blasted to outer realms of space in a rocket or frozen with hope of a defrost later on!) but what happens to our individuated consciousness? do our memories/life histories remain intact? are we recycled/reborn in another realm? do we come back to planet earth as earthworm/butterfly or beatle depending on our karma bank? or are we whisked off to pearly gates for a great day of reckoning? ....

I think the problem is that many people do not have a choice. If you live in a village, the chances are that the school will be a church school. If you don't want a church school education, you are stuffed because you are likely not to be in the catchment of an ordinary maintained school - which are much more likely to be in towns. My own view is that "none" is probably the dominant religion in many schools and church schools need to be sensitive to this.

So the church should go against its own beliefs because a couple of parents don't like them?

It's a horrible situation but you can't expect the school to change it's ethos to please you. Like others have said you have to use it as a chance to discuss what others believe.

Teaching that pets go to heaven is not a Christian belief. It is not part of the Christian ethos. It may be what a lot of nice fluffy people think but it is not defensible on the grounds of being part of Christianity.

So, was it appropriate? No. Not in the particular circumstances the OP describes, and not in general.

Sirzy - yes I think that if the church is going to continue to provide state education, including in places where parents have no other choice than a CoE school then they should respect the beliefs and disbeliefs of the families they serve.

As Grimma and others have said pet-heaven is not a teaching of the church anyway.

Some churches teach (and some people believe) that only Christians get to heaven, and the rest go to hell for eternity. If a teacher passed that message on as fact is that ok?

why should the church bother providing it if its not to be part of the church community though?

And not forgetting a lot of parents send their children to faith schools because that is what they want. That always seems to get forgotten in these "the church should forget all it stands for" arguments.

Why shouldn't a teacher suggest that animals have souls?

It's a difficult one, something I would never have thought about and it's very sad that you and other parents in the school are in this position. My child may be going to a C of E school but we are not very strict Christians, if he does go I look forward to seeing how the deal with various issues.