How to encourage children to practise their musical instruments

[TheAvocadoOfWisdom]

Any tips welcome. I have a 6yo who started violin in September. He likes it, and is pleased with the squeaking tunes he can play. But he seems to think that if he has played something through once, it doesn't need any perfecting. He doesn't resist practising once per day, and I don't want to start a battle, but I'd like him to start going over the bars where he's making mistakes, rather than just battling through.

How much should he be practising at this age, and how can I get him to practise usefully?

My girls practice their piano for 20 mins a day, except the 6 year old, who has just started, and their 2nd instruments for 10 mins 4x a week.
I make sure they follow the instructions their teachers have given them, at this stage the teachers decide what bars need extra practice.

I'm sorry, I have no practical advice, Avocado. But I felt I must come on to the thread to congratulate you on your accurate spelling of 'practise' in a thread title - such a refreshing change from all the MN 'practice' clangers made almost daily.

Learning to practise effectively is quite a skill and often now mastered until the ds has been playing for some time (2+ years in ds's case!) By effective, I mean with a focused and mindful repetition of the music.

Regular practise helps develop this. In my ds's case I shamefacedly bribed him for the first year, with a small token toy (in his case football cards) if he practised for 5 times a week for 10 mins. After the first year he had made such progress that practise became self rewarding and I have never had to bribe again. At 10, he is now capable of 'mindful' pracitse at least half the week, (reasonably diligent the other half). When he started his second instrument, he already knew how to practise. At 6 I would suggest 10 mins maximum of good quality practise 5 times a week.

I think it helps if the child has genuine fun playing the instrument. Practising can be a chore, but it is so much easier if it is more like a game.

DS1 is 8, and plays the piano. He tends to play for 15 mins at a time, several times a day, sometimes practising the work his teacher has set, and sometimes just messing about. Thankfully, the piano teacher is happy with this, because the messing about it also constructive - today, he has been playing a piece in different keys, just to hear how it sounds. Mind you, it is driving me mad!

I played the flute to grade 8, and found that the best the best thing to do was to leave my flue accessible, so I could just pick it up when I went by. I liked to test myself, by trying to repeat a piece 3 times without making a mistake. And most of all, I liked to just experiment. Play in different rooms, record myself and play duets etc. Just enjoy it.

hmm, he seems to be enjoying his musicality. I'm impressed that he is already playing tunes so you must be doing something right!

Hi
Did he choose violin himself, over other instruments? Unfortunately it is one of the hardest instruments for a child (presumably it's a small size one?) and progress can be rather slow.

As a TA in Primary Schools I did 'fun' music lessons for ten years or so, but only on recorder, keyboard, and occasionally percussion. (I coached Year 2 children to accompany the Xmas production most years.)

Do you play yourself, or have any musical knowledge? Do you have a piano or keyboard in the house? If you, or some other adult, could play along with him it could motivate him. Listening to CDs of simple Classical pieces could give him some idea of what to aim at.

Are the lessons private, or through school? Are any of his peers learning an instrument?

I agree with sittinginthesun that if there is a 'fun' element to playing it makes it more enjoyable for children.

If you wish to clarify my questions (by personal message, if you like), I can may be suggest a few other things that might help. I'll also check what other resources might be available; I know what there is for Jazz all right, but not for Classical.

Cheers

DD2 has a cornet through a school loan programme, she has had it since late October and loves to practise - but I do have to remind her, and find a space of an evening (two f/t working parents, plus dinner, plus homework, plus early bedtime) to fit it all in. I go up with her and encourage her, as brass is also difficult to learn - I can read music so can help with that, but have only player piano and recorder myself.

We call it her 'honking' practice and as a treat she is allowed to play her favourite pieces at the end of each session (currently 'Jingle Bells' and the beginning of the 'Jaws' theme tune, which helps her practice her Bs so also worthwhile).

Her teacher is happy with her progress, so we must be doing something right...

I pretend to be a woodland creature who is charmed by the beautiful sound of dd playing her flute.
It is bloody hard work, I have to hop up and down and wiffle my nose for 20 minutes, but it gets her to do it.

That had me in stitches Tunip! A* for effort for you

"I know what there is for Jazz all right, but not for Classical."

ooh, please expand Ferguson.

Proper, desconstructive learning practice times are hard. Both of mine (DS 9 and 6) can get cross if I break in "You don't like my lovely work!" etc, but the 9 year old (4 terms in) is getting there. I find chatting about the bar in question - "Ooh look, I though that note was a D but actually it is an E, isn't it" - imagine ghastly spritely tone - works better than getting the little one to do just the bar in question (also in term 2 of violin).
Also, practice time in the morning seems to help - get it over with and avoid debate as to when it will be done.

Avocado, I never used incentives. The incentive was: "unless you practise, you will never be able to play it. Music practise is your job, like it is my job to work, pay the mortgage, put food on your table, wash your clothes and be there for you. Your job is to go to school, do homework, practise music, become a better person, etc. It is not too much to ask. Children your age are working in factories in other countries." All in a loving tone!
Sometimes it was fun, sometimes it wasn't. He understood he had to do it.
At 6, he was doing 15 min practise 5 X week plus the 45min lesson. A bit less on his second instrument. At that age, you can't expect them to practise in a disciplined "focus on the problem" manner. The teacher has to be very specific about what needs work. He is now 10, Grade 4 in both instruments, and is practising 30min everyday. I can see he goes over the tricky bars again and again, uses scales to warm up, etc. He is now thinking for himself and finding out what works best for him. He knows all too well when he isn't getting it right. He feels proud of his achivements and loves playing. So no harm done in my "no choice" attitude.
Give him time, cheer his efforts, hear him play, just don't expect it to be a fun ride for him all the time because it won't be.

I agree with a lit of what shehulk said - it's all about work ethic. It's pretty much the attitude I have with homework.

I think, though, that it depends on what you and your dc are hoping to achieve with music. In my case, it has always been a fun thing, relaxation, joining in with music groups, and the sheer love of playing. I don't think my parents (both tone deaf!) ever mentioned practise. I just did it, because I didn't want to look crap in front of my teacher, and because it was fun.

Maybe I'm more relaxed, but we spend a lot of time dividing the day into time slots for our children. In many ways, I like the fact that I have just sent the boys off to play before bedtime, while I "wash up", and I can hear that DS1 has gone straight to the piano, and is playing a piece for tommorrow's lesson, but two octaves higher than it should be!

"Your job is to go to school, do homework, practise music, become a better person, etc. It is not too much to ask. Children your age are working in factories in other countries".

I'm sure this is tongue in cheek but serious question: I totally get why you'd have this attitude for spelling, numeracy, behaviour and things that lead to the child to getting a job one day. But I honestly don't understand how it came to be accepted that music should be treated like this.

Not attacking the writer - more a whimsical "I wonder why people who wouldn't force their child to do a science experiment every evening force their child to practise the violin every evening".

Tunip you deserve a medal for your services!
I agree party with not forcing it but practice makes a difference to achievement and I'm paying £140 per term plus exam fees I would like to see some effort. I am now charging DD £5 per week for each week she doesn't practice as it is the run up to her exam I said I would pay for it on the condition she practiced twice a week for 20 mins each time. For me it is about appreciating cost and also for her not to waste opportunity.

sweets

lingle I don't force a science experiment every evening because I am hoping he will go to a good enough school where he will get to do lots of science in the right environment (a lab). BTW we have done some disastrous messy science at home and have enjoyed it! Now, with music... School can provide lessons, ensembles, bands, etc. But the practise will always be left to him, in his own time, as it is the case now in his primary. So that's whay it happens at home every evening. It's not forced anymore. Now he wants it.
Now you ask: what's the point? After all, music may not lead to him getting a job one day, but literacy and numeracy will. Really? I don't know what will lead our DCs to get jobs in the future. It is all so uncertain now. All I know is that I see my DS education as a process of him becoming more rounded, more capable not only of achieving financial independence but also personal happiness.

Also, I guess it is a personal choice, either you bring music into your child's life or you don't. I just think being able to play an instrument when you're an adult, whatever you choose to do for a living, is great.

"music may not lead to him getting a job one day, but literacy and numeracy will. Really?"

It's a presumption but I think a rather overwhelmingly reasonable one.

I think there should be joy in it from the beginning, it's supposed to be fun. If it isn't, I'd rather stop and try again later on a different instrument or in a different genre.

I'm really interested in how we developed a culture where music is supposed to be unenjoyable in order to be worthwhile. It seems to be an unfortunate aspect of the classical music culture (though I suppose Michael Jackson was forced to practise all the time too.......)

ferguson he chose the violin. He has group classes at a music school, and the classes are designed for his age group. He has two instrumental classes a week and one general music class. He has wanted to play the violin since he was three. (I would have preferred him to have chosen the cello - I think it's easier when you're small, and less squeaky - but he made his choice). He listens to Vivaldi's four seasons with the same reverence with which he watches Ben10. I don't play along with him on the piano as he finds it frustrating, if he makes a mistake, but I do model parts of the music for him if he asks.

I agree that it's slow progress at first - I think it's very good for him that this is something he has to work at as he breezes through school thinking he doesn't have to make an effort. He likes music, and wants to play, but still needs to be convinced that playing through a tune once probably won't be enough.

I won't force him, but nor will I allow him, at this stage, to decide that practising is not for him. I want him to have music in his life, and he's keen too, it's just that sometimes he needs a bit of a nudge in the right direction. I'll keep on with about 10 minutes then.

sorry, still thinking ....

I suppose Michael Jackson's dad, like Mozart's dad, had a coherent vision, based on extensive professional experience, of how forcing lots of practice could make their child rich and successful. I don't think this will happen in the future (earning a living and limiting the incessant travel is now the highest aspiration of the musicians I know). Yet somehow the culture persists.

"He listens to Vivaldi's four seasons with the same reverence with which he watches Ben10."

Ooh ooh ooh! my kind of boy. Try the following if you haven't already:

"play 10 ds then an a" (child does it).
"now do it again" (child does it, looking confused.)
"nice and steady now"
(child does it again, whilst you play opening to "spring" on your piano - in d.)

Now look at child's face. It should be a fun moment.

next it's 9 ds, 1 a and 1d (twice).
let me know if you want more.

one good thing about this vivaldi exercise is that you get to concentrate on their bowing instead of left hand finger placement which tends to dominate, prolonging the squeeky period unncessarily.

We encourage DD2 to practise her guitar 10 minutes a day, every day, but it doesn't always work out that way. We try to motivate her by listening to her playing whenever possible - both DH and myself drop what we're doing (she tends to practise late, at about 7.30, so what we're doing is usually nothing important ie wasting time on Mumsnet ) and sit down for a short 'concert'. We praise her when a piece has clearly got better over the last few days and applaud our favourites. It helps that a guitar is an instrument where easy songs can be played by beginners and genuinely sound quite good (unlike the violin, perhaps), so we're not exaggerating too much.

And feenie, practice as a verb is perfectly correct in American English - its use is not wrong as such, merely slightly inappropriate if the users are British. But I do feel you're being slightly pernickety given the wealth of poor spelling grammar and spelling on offer on the Web these days.

sorry, still going on about Vivaldi - by doing this, you get him to bow his open string smoothly - get that bow parallel to the bridge.

See, technique by stealth, built on solid foundations of joy.

Sorry feenie - there should have been a after that last point - tongue firmly in cheek!