Kind, well-meaning relative bought the Oxford Reading Tree box setfor DD (Aged 5.1)....but I am unsure how to sync this ox in with Jolly Phonics

[Greythorne]

DD is learning to read in English (we are in France) and doing pretty well with learning sounds, blending and reading Songbird books. We are following Jolly Phonics and it makes compkete sense.

However, the ORT set is not decodeable....so even the level one books have words like 'saw' and 'made' which DD cannot yet decode.

She is keen to get on with the ORT books but stumbles and gets frustrated even with the level 1 books.

I am te pted to hide them at the back of the cupboard and focus solely on Jolly Phonics and Songbirds but I keep hearing how ORT is standard in UK schools.

Any advice?

I call any words which aren't decodable 'puzzle words' / or 'sight' words. You just have to learn them. There is a list of the most important ones - I think there was another thread about this with a link?

'Made' is decodable - you learn the sound as "a_e" - or what is also called the magic e which turns a short vowel sound to a long vowel sound. Maybe you haven't got to that bit in Jolly Phonics yet? - I didn't use Jolly Phonics, but I'm sure it would cover it.

I too am in France, and when I left the UK, I was told that learning to read with a mixture of books would help her become more confident at reading, rather than focusing on one reading scheme - the teacher I was talking to said that they used a variety of books to give the kids a really solid foundation. And also lots of picture books. Some words were too hard, but I sounded them out for her, so she didn't lose the flow and get all frustrated.

By memory, I would wait until she is further on with the Songbirds (DD loved those) and tell her that this is the "order" of difficulty to read them in - in other words give her them when she has learned at least a few of the basic sight words and you think will find them easier! I put ones for DD in order (decided by me!) on a bookshelf and we worked our way slowly through them.

Hope this helps while you are waiting with someone who knows more than me to come along ...... as I'm not a teacher, but like you I had to figure it out myself. I have got a five year old who adores reading in english and french which I think is what all of us have as our main goal, and in the end it will all come together even if it is difficult along the way.

p.s. I think the most important thing is understanding phonic sounds / phonemes as that is what they need for writing / spelling. But I'm sure the teachers will be along soon to correct me.

ORT worked for my DC as they liked the stories and the characters, weird and dated as they are.

There is level of consistency in them too.

I have been helping at school with the Y1's reading 1-1, and they are the books I got on with best.

The pictures really help the story along too, ORT works for lots of kids IMHO, and they tend to like it (esp. the magic key stories)

Dd read ORT after more phonics based books, once they are confident it matters less. We started with songbirds, superphonics etc and now she is working her way through level 5 read at home ORT. She is another magic key fan. I wouldn't have introduced the ORT too early as she would have started guessing.

I think they need to be Y1 for Magic Key, roughly.

DD also does Jolly Phonics in school but gets ORT books to bring home. We also bought the box set to give her more choice and let her have a go at weekends as well. And she loves the family, regardless how ridiculous they may appear.

I gave up on trying to teach her only phonics. English is not a phonetic language and there will always be words they can't decode.

We read what DD wants to read. I think that is easier then trying to follow a strict rule. The school told us to read and read what the children like as this will make it more fun than trying to stick with a certain method. If she stumbles over a certain word we help.

Our school mixes them up too, and we had level 1 books from Reception, but it does depend on your child.

If they look appealing to your DD, I would go with them. Don't let her get frustrated - just let her read the words she knows, work out the words she can, and you supply the rest.

As I understand it ORT (by which I presume you mean Biff & Kipper etc.) are standard in schools because they're stuck with them from the days of look and say and can't afford new books. That's the case in my DS's school anyway. I'd focus on the phonics books (incidentally Songbirds, which are great, are also ORT).

Maybe when your DD can read pretty confidently she may enjoy some of the later Biff & Kipper books. Personally I think the're the work of the anti-literacy devil. Is there anyway you could explain to your relative and see if you could exchange them for something more appropriate, or is it too late/awkward?

Hide them away, go to this site www.oxfordowl.co.uk/FindBook and choose phonic based books to buy or read as e books. My son is doing very well with phonics and is equally put off by books with too many "tricky" words (ie annoying english words that don't work sounding out). The phonic based ones on this site are excellent and I don't see why they shouldn't stick to these when they are only just starting reading (he is 5.3).

Yes Oxford Owl is great, although I was disappointed how few of the early phonics books are available as ebooks.

I just found Reading Eggs, a brilliant website for phonics-based learning and DS loves it. You can sign up for a free trial and there is a code for an extension to the trial on this blog.

Also try Reading Chest where you can sign up to get books sent to you monthly. I tried it for a while, but DS had been put off by ORT. I've recently bought the Songbirds set and I'm hoping this and Reading Eggs will get him back on track.

Chuck them away! (in the recycling bin, of course) By the time your child has learned the correspondences needed to read them they will bore her rigid.

ORT may be in lots opf schools, but it is hopelessly out of step with modern phonics teaching and will, hopefully, disappear as schools replace it with decodables.

Actually, you could keep the later books, dd will cope with them fine once she's done the JP - just dump the early ones...

Can anyone recommend good phonics starter books for Kindle or iBooks - my ds seems to find everything much more exciting if he can learn or read it on my iPad, and the Oxford Owl ones can't, I don't think.

To begin with all words are decodable once your child knows how. Personally I would recycle them as Maizie suggests but as they were a gift [rolls eyes] my advice would be to put them away until your daughter has the skills to read them without having to learn the words by sight before hand.

RoughShooting as far as I know none of the reading scheme books are available for Kindle/iBooks

My children's school teaches Jolly Phonics and sends home ORT look say . I would do are mrz and maiseD said and put them away. They will not help.

As pointed out above, all words are decodable. Really.

Don't confuse your child as mine has been confused.

Yes, of course, I misspoke when I said the words on ORT Biff books are not decodeable....I just meant the most basic ORT Biff books contain words which are not decodeable to a child sailing through the Songbirds series.

Thx everyone

Roughshooting, I'm keeping a beady eye out but as yet I haven't come across any genuine 'decodable' book schemes for kindle or ipad.

OUP Project X interactive books are available for ipad but only the non-decodable titles rather than the Project X Phonics

itunes.apple.com/gb/app/childrens-books-project-x/id436974382?mt=8

If you download the free info.app there's part of a book to sample, Ant's Bug Adventure.

P.S. I agree with maizie and mrz that the OP should put the ORT books in the back of a deep cupboard until such time as their child can read the words in them without memorising and guessing.

How ludicrous to recycle or hide books because they don't fit in with the specific way your child is being taught reading at school. Reading is about much more than phonics. Just enjoy the books with your child, as CecilyP says.

Phonics may be effective but that doesn't mean you have to slavishly follow it.

but if your child has been taught to read using phonics what IS the point of offering them a look say book OF NO LITERARY MERIT WHATSOEVER???

Read them a proper book with words they can not yet decode in, share Where the Wild Things Are, or The Shark In The Park, or Peepo. Not bloody Biff and Chip. As most people do with their children.

My ds has been taught phonics beautifully by his school. Yet they continue to send him home with books to read that he is not yet able to decode. Because they have taught him to decode, he tries to decode them and thinks he has failed because he cannot. I really don't think that this is a helpful approach.

I just find it rather weird that people get so hung up on a method. My dd is learning phonics, so we practise that. We look at her tricky words list and practise those. And we read pretty much anything else that comes into the house from school, the library, the boot fair, Amazon.

She has all the books you mention, and we read those a lot because they are fabulous (and fun for me). And we read some really dull-seeming books and she likes them too - precisely because she recognises simple words and likes the fact that they are repeated. If she gets bored with trying to work out the words, then I read the book or we set it aside.

I wouldn't rush out an buy a whole other reading scheme, but if someone gave me one I would let dd discover it and read it.

we get so hung up on method because it is a good thing. I should have mentioned that I am a primary school teacher and have taught many children to read. Look say is a silly way to teach. It leaves 20% of children unable to read.

Properly taught phonics teaches nearly every child to read.

Why not teach your child to read in the best possible way? And as I mentioned before, if your child IS being taught phonics properly then to include Look, Say into the mix is just confusing.

I agree with coronet. As I said we read whatever comes into our hands and when DD asks she can start reading and we help when she stumbles.

Reading should be fun and DD wants to read stories she likes and not what some scheme deems appropriate but DD finds boring.

I think phonics works good to teach them but they need to learn that there are words they need to remember and can;t decode. So what?

Yesterday she read a Level 5 ORT because she didn't like her schoolbook and managed 2/3 on her own. I think this is better than no reading at all.

Humphrey - if you follow the Jolly phonics method exclusively though, how do you teach tricky words?

My kids learned jolly phonics and ORT and loved both. They had lists of tricky words to learn. They are now year 2 and reading wimpy kids diaries and Roald Dahl so I dont think it has confused them too much! They still love Biff and Chip too.

'reading should be fun'

I entirely agree. That is why I won't inflict ORT on my son.

'they need to learn that there are words they need to remember and can't decode'

Actually they don't - all words are decodable.

Level 5 ORT gets a bit better in terms of story. The early ones are dire. That is why I would ALWAYS read an actual book instead.