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Kind, well-meaning relative bought the Oxford Reading Tree box setfor DD (Aged 5.1)....but I am unsure how to sync this ox in with Jolly Phonics

100 replies

Greythorne · 10/01/2012 07:48

DD is learning to read in English (we are in France) and doing pretty well with learning sounds, blending and reading Songbird books. We are following Jolly Phonics and it makes compkete sense.

However, the ORT set is not decodeable....so even the level one books have words like 'saw' and 'made' which DD cannot yet decode.

She is keen to get on with the ORT books but stumbles and gets frustrated even with the level 1 books.

I am te pted to hide them at the back of the cupboard and focus solely on Jolly Phonics and Songbirds but I keep hearing how ORT is standard in UK schools.

Any advice?

OP posts:
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Mashabell · 11/01/2012 18:39

Anyone who takes an objective look at English spelling can easily understand why phonics is useful only in the early stages of learning to read, with words that entirely decodable.

The final aim of reading instruction is to be able to read all common words by sight instantly, as everyone on this forum can. With regularly spelt words of the 'fat cat sat' variety children can get to that stage by simply improving their decoding speed. With the trickier ones (like 'one'), most children keep getting repeatedly stuck and need a great deal of patient help, although some manage to work them out for themselves, utilising their context.

The ORT books were written mainly for the purpose of teaching the trickier words, such 'once, only, other'. They become far more manageable for children if parents or teachers pick out the tricky words in then and go over them a few times before asking children to read one of the books.

In all there are around 2000 common English words which are not entirely decodable (see Sightwords on my website if interested), but as children's vocabulary and mastery of grammar grows, they become better able to access most of them. The tricky words which most deserve teaching, after basic phonics, are the most HF ones.

In the first 100 most used English words, the following 41 contain some tricky or surplus letters:
the, he, be, we, me, she,
of, to, was, want, all, call, one, said,
you, by, my, only, come, could, do, down, into, look, now, other, right, some, there, two, when, what, where, which, who, your,
are, have, before, more, were.

In the next 200 these are tricky in some way:
another, any, many, saw, water, small, laughed,

bear, great, head, ready,

(ever, never,) every, eyes,

find, friends, giant, I?ll, I?m, key, live, river,

people, pulled, put, thought, through, were, work, would,

coming, everyone, gone,

most, mother, oh, once,

grow, how, know, snow, town, window,

book, food, good, room, school, soon, too, took, door,

Mr Mrs magic,
(and depending on accent)
after, asked, can?t, fast, last, plants.

Once children have mastered basic phonics and can read all the above, the ORT books become easy.

Masha Bell

maizieD · 11/01/2012 18:47

That's one 'professional' I wouldn't take any advice from Biscuit

mrz · 11/01/2012 18:50

Masha if I recall correctly you said you have taught your grandchildren to read ... do they go to a school that follows your strange take on reading?

HumphreyCobbler · 11/01/2012 18:51
RedHelenB · 11/01/2012 18:57

Trouble is, phonic books are boring compared to ORT at the moment. I learned look & say & am a good speller so I'm not convinced that phonics teaching only is the holy grail. I fully expect things to change because in the 20 + years since I did my P.G.C.E loads has!!!

I do agree though, that only doing ORT can give some children a false sense of security & make them reluctant to tackle other books.

But to go back to the original question, if the child enjoys then, just tell them the words they are stuck on & let them enjoy the stories.

mrz · 11/01/2012 19:04

I can't think of anything more boring than ORT to be honest ... unless it's Ginn 360

Greythorne · 11/01/2012 19:07

Biff and Chip books are v boring. Plus, they cause my DD to pause, stumble, look for visual clues, make wild guesses because the text is not decodeable for beginners.

OP posts:
Greythorne · 11/01/2012 19:09

She doesn't do wild guesses with the Songbird books, she calmly sounds out the word. Sometimes needs help, but jumps right in with trying to blend the sounds.

The Biff books seem to bring out the worst habits.

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Greythorne · 11/01/2012 19:12

I have bought the Usborne Phonics books (Shark in the Park, Big Pig On A Dig, Frog on a Log etc.) so we will have a bash with those.

So far, school have supplied tons of worksheets and exercise booklets from the Jolly Phonics system but no actual reading books. Are there JP readers?

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mrz · 11/01/2012 19:13

The Biff Chip books were designed to encourage those strategies Greythorne and it's one thing they do well.

sarahfreck · 11/01/2012 21:20

Magda

You might find some of the games and activities here www.kenttrustweb.org.uk/kentict/content/games/literacy_menu.html
are suitable for little ones. Start with the activities that help with the sounds for single letters ( eg "a" has the sound like at the start of ant, "c" like the start of cat)

Starfall has some great early phonics activities www.starfall.com/ but all the speech is with an American accent. It has printables too though where obviously the accent is not a factor.

mrz · 11/01/2012 21:22

There are JP readers (I'm not a fan)

coronet · 11/01/2012 21:23

My kids always read after their bath. Dh was in charge tonight. I just went downstairs to find and ORT Chip and Kipper book (5 year old) and an old Ladybird version of Heidi (7 year old) on the sofa.

So my kids definitely find something appealing about them. We must have 200+ children's books in the house - three or four are ORT, I think.

mrz · 11/01/2012 21:25

Have they read ORT at school?

mrz · 11/01/2012 21:26

I have to say neither of my children would ever have chosen to read a scheme book for pleasure

coronet · 11/01/2012 21:32

No, never read it at school. My mum picked a few up up at a boot fair (she is retired teacher). Honestly, I am not making this up. It's just one book among many in my house.

I think dd2 likes to feel she is reading and she doesn't get scheme reading books at school at the moment (they are buying phonics books and let dcs bring home any book they like, whether simple reading or a book for an adult to read). But she is just as likely to pick up the animal encyclopedia we have, or Disney Ariel.

Greythorne · 11/01/2012 21:38

Mrz
What readers would you recommend for a Reception reader who has just started sounding, blending and reading?

I will put aside ORT Biff and Chip.

We already have the Usborne Phonics set and the school is sending home some Songbirds.

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Kerryblue · 11/01/2012 21:42

I have to also add that dd has absolutely atrocious spelling - for eg sesid for seaside. It's like she hasn't learnt the basics.

Had she learnt phonetically, I am sure her spelling would not be quite so bad.

gaelicsheep · 11/01/2012 23:02

My DS won a gold star in his class today for being the only child to read their core reading book (another Biff & Chip masterpiece) without a mistake. For the first time we had NOT done his "reading" homework. He has an excellent memory and can recite the book after a couple of runs through at school.

No one should kid themselves that the children are reading Biff & Chip - they are an exercise in memory, nothing more. Hence I will be telling DS's teacher next week that from now on we will be reading books of our own choice at home and not confusing him with Biff and sodding Chip.

gaelicsheep · 11/01/2012 23:04

And Greythorne - absolutely. I've been working over the holidays to stop DS from guessing at words instead of sounding them out. One Biff & Chip book and he's straight back to the bad habit of guessing again. Hence no more Biff & Chip at home - ever.

gaelicsheep · 11/01/2012 23:08

I also read an interesting article recently which talked about how different teaching methods result in different parts of the brain being used for reading, which is why mixed methods can be so damaging. And like someone else said earlier my DS is absolutely desperate to read proper books himself and is often in tears about it. I got him going with phonics at home to try and really speed up the process for him as he is getting nowhere fast at school (unsurprising given my earlier post).

Mashabell · 12/01/2012 06:13

Kerry
^sesid for seaside. It's like she hasn't learnt the basics.

Had she learnt phonetically, I am sure her spelling would not be quite so bad.^

Phonetics would help her to learn to spell she can see the sea from the quay?

It would have done a few centuries ago, when the /ee/ sound was spelt as in 'he, se, tre' and 'mene, sene, speke, slepe, kepe'.

HumphreyCobbler · 12/01/2012 07:38

of course phonics would help her to learn to spell see and sea. We teach that both ea and ee are two ways of spelling the same sound.

Do you know how synthetic phonics works?

Mashabell · 12/01/2012 07:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

Kerryblue · 12/01/2012 11:04

I'm sorry, I don't understand your post Masha. Confused

She, quay, see - all to do with the word 'seaside' ??

I don't get your point.

And thank you Humphrey - the twins already know ee and ea can both sound the same.