City of Westminster primary schools...get in.

[BostonianInLondon]

New to the GB education system (minefield) as I'm from the US, and with a 2 1/2 year old living in the City of Westminster. Non-Christian.

I'm doing some research on primary schools in our area and horrified to read the Ofsted reports and other data associated with the non-denominational primaries, which barely seem to have achieved a Satisfactory rating. That said, the faith based schools aren't too bad--some are looking quite good. What angers me is that we are Muslim, but my child will be placed in the bottom priority bucket for all of these schools because of that fact. So, despite being a higher rate tax payer, the government kindly allows these schools paid for by me as a tax payer to put my child at the bottom of the list when picking and choosing for admissions.

Has anyone had this problem? I refuse to pretend that I am Christian to get DS in as I think that is completely unethical--however I would very much like for him to attend one of these schools; their ethos and academics are exactly what I'm looking for. How would I go about getting him in????

And for anyone that suggests a fee paying school, I don't believe that I can afford it, despite working for an investment bank; I cannot trust that redundancies in the coming years won't include me as a casualty, and sending DS to a fee paying school would make any possibility of baby no. 2 an impossibility. State school, it must be...

Do you expect your status as a higher rate payer to give you priority

The admission for all areas is freely advertised. Look at it, see what you fit and apply accordingly. Your other option is to move to an area where the non-faith schools meet your standards. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to make you live in Westminster. As that is one of the most expensive areas in the country I would suggest that living somewhere cheaper might enable you to afford private school after all?

YABVU

What's wrong with Barrow Hill or

George Elliot or

Hallfield or

Millbank

Those are the first ones I looked at and they all have very good value added scores and look like very good schools.

Looks like there's many good non denominational schools near you.

The other thing you need to do is stop reading the ofsted reports and start visiting the actual schools - that's the way to see what you would be happy with.

Barrow Hill got a good
George Elliot got a good
Hallfield got a 'satisfactory and steadily improving'
Millbank got an outstanding

Most people either pay a fortune to buy a house right next to their preferred school - or go to whatever school they can get into.

Thanks for the info.

Re: the higher tax payer commentI don't believe in discrimination based on faith when it's the tax payers that pay for you. If my tax rate is based on a higher income (which I think is fair) is paying for these schools then I expect fairness in admissions too. If the school was a fee paying school then they should be able to discriminate any way they likebut not if I'm paying for them.

Re: moving--We live in our family's flat which has no rent or outstanding mortgage (we only pay the building service fees). For us moving is not a financially viable option right now, especially because both my husband and I could possibly be made redundant as we work in financial services. We simply don't want to take the financial risk by entering into any lease contracts or otherwise.

In relation to comments about 'Satisfactory' rated schools--do you actually think that 'satisfactory' is ok? Would you send your child to a 'Satisfactory' school? I get the feeling from Hallfield that though they have a great staff and facilities the students come in with particular issues that my son doesn't have (asylum seeker families, no English spoken at home, etc).

Are you for real?

Yes I have and would send my kids to a satisfactory school.

No I don't care whether the other kids in their class speak English at home or not.

You're not coming across very well you know.

You don't know what issues your son will have when he starts school. But whatever they will be they'll be different from the other kids in his class.

I have no intention of coming off badly here...

Let me explain:

I wonder if sending your child to a school where the students arrive speaking no English will slow down progress for others in the classroom. While the teachers (and rightfully so) need to spend extra time with those students, getting them up to speed with language, what about the students that already speak English? Will they be challenged in the same way as the children ? That's what I meant.

My concern for schools that are 'satisfactory' comes from several sourcesone of which works for a charity called Teach First. His charity assists schools that he would consider not to be 'Satisfactory' while Ofsted still gives them those ratings. So I am suspicious of that rating level and simply wanted to see if other people had those concerns as well. Plus, Ofsted does additional checks on 'Satisfactory' rated schoolswhy would they do that if they were not in threat of actually being unsatisfactory?

Remember I'm new to the system in this country--and just like everyone else here want what is best for my child...

You can't have the best for your child and refuse to go private or move house.

A satisfactory school is not the best you could possibly get.

Children who speak English won't be held back - in fact it can be quite the opposite as the teacher will need them to speak lots and lots.

English schools are different to US ones. We differentiate here - which means every child is taught at their own level. We never keep children back or put them up a year. All classes have children working at least 2 years below average and at least 2 years above average.

The children in his class won't all be given the same work. Some will be learning to count to 10, while at the same time some will be doing multiplication or adding 3 digit numbers.

At the same time as some satisfactory schools are pretty dire, some are truly fantastic. You can't make a judgement about a school based solely on it's ofsted report.

Hallfield for example has a value added score of 103.4 - which is phenomenally high. That means kids in Hallfield make way more progress than expected.

Schools with very high EAL kids often do well, as it forces the teaching to be better.

I didn't realise that they were able to accommodate for everyone like that--giving children different levels of work depending on their own personal progress. I assumed that my son would be working to a level that might be too slow for him because he would arrive already speaking English.

And it isn't that I refuse to send him private or move--it's just too expensive for us now. I'm not a snob but you're making me out to be one.

Yes, differentiation makes the UK better than most other countries :)

And it makes our schools very different.

At Hallfield 20% of kids make a L5 in both English in Maths - which is a very good result (A L5 is the best result you can get - L4 is the target).

It is fair to expect that your child will do very well there - 20% of kids did very well, and so there's no reason to expect your child won't.

I didn't realise that was a good result! People keep talking to me about Hallfield as if it is horrifyingly awful... Of course if I'm wrong then at least I could sleep at night...

You surely can't expect to be higher up a waiting list because you pay higher taxes?????.
Go private

do you think it's fair that people pay 40% in income tax that goes to schools that their kid can't get into because of their faith?

i worked very hard to make the income i make--i came from a working class family and got multiple degrees paid for by student loans that i am paying off and through multiple part time jobs. but now my son won't get as much of a fair shot in admissions as other children because he isn't christian. i think that if you're going to be fair in the tax system and take money from me regardless of my faith then be fair in tax funded education too.

i'm sorry if you think that is me being a snob, or whatever, but i don't think it is fair.

I work in a school where English is not the first language of about 30% of the pupils, or where they speak a language other than English at home.

It really isn't a problem. The vast majority are totally fluent in English, as are their parents.

Just because children do not have English as their mother tongue does not mean that they can't speak it, or are not fluent in it. Unlike you, they are not just off the boat.

I am sure one of the attractions of moving to London for you would be to experience another culture and to live in a cosmopolitan and vibrant world city. Coming across and integrating with other cultures is all part of this melting pot. It is not like living in a US subdivision with its monoculture. It is like being downtown, in the thick of it.

What do you have against CofE schools? Many of them have student bodies that reflect their local communities (and all of them should, imo). If the church did not place these schools in neighbourhoods 100+ years ago, there would be a lot more to moan about.

My recommendation is for you to list the schools in order of distance to your house and then visit them in that order. Then decide what you are going to put on your application form.

Can I ask why you are not staying in US or going somewhere with less risk of redundancy for you? You seem to have a low opinion of the UK albeit some of it based on assumption and misunderstanding. What about trying for one of the Islamic schools in London which taxpayers also support? Oh yes, sorry then you would have to pay travel costs for your child, which being a 40 per cent tax payer i guess you would struggle with, despite your housing costs being at peppercorn level? Still, try the Islamic schools, I presume you are practicing Muslims?

Oh and there are difficulties for us here as roman catholic schools are difficult for other Christians too due to sheer lack of places. One of the downsides of our Thriving economy in London. Also due to people moving to London and enjoying job Market. Sorry YABVVU as you seem to want it all in a plate. We have all had a rough ride and more to come. You have a job at present and some on here do not. I would concentrate on getting a better grip on the system before you slate it.

I think you're all twisting what I'm saying, and frankly being nasty.

You're all nuts.

Oh dear!

I have tried to be helpful. :(

What do you want from us? We will gladly help if we know what you are looking for.

Er, I know a Muslim boy who goes to an extremely good catholic school here. I can't get my son into the fantastic CofE school nearby. This is partly because all the expats buying/renting the houses out nearby, which has pushed up the costs so 'locals' can't afford them! I think I know whereabouts you are. And Hallfield - you'd be lucky to get a place anyway! Places are like hens teeth. Try Hampton Gurney.

Are you planning to stay long term in the UK?

And I also have multiple degrees/postgrads, not paid for by the state, but thats got nothing to do with it. I was also a 40% tax payer.

So go private, but in central London you will find the classes full for foreigners too - kids that have come over with their parents who are on contract of diplomat kids who are only here for a year or two, so their English isn't great!
You pay higher tax rate then you ought to be able to manage if you don't have rent or mortgage. Plus of if you get made redundant, won't you need to move back to the US?

My kids couldn't get into the local school when we moved from the USA. DH is a 40% taxpayer also. We had to go private, and now I have to work too to help pay for it.

But you're right that faith schools are a nonsense - in this respect I couldn't agree with you more. It's the only area in which such discrimination is allowed and effectively allows some people more choice than others.

Got made redundant from 40 per cent paying job, paying for private nursery still as need to work full time. house up for sale sadly just as ds is due to apply for reception classes. Kicking self as despite redundancy not being expected or own fault am not sure where we will apply and where he will go to school. At least I can do proper research though and spend time visiting possibilities.

Sorry but this person would be quite happy of she was looking at Islamic schools as presumably she would be top of the list.