City of Westminster primary schools...get in.

[BostonianInLondon]

New to the GB education system (minefield) as I'm from the US, and with a 2 1/2 year old living in the City of Westminster. Non-Christian.

I'm doing some research on primary schools in our area and horrified to read the Ofsted reports and other data associated with the non-denominational primaries, which barely seem to have achieved a Satisfactory rating. That said, the faith based schools aren't too bad--some are looking quite good. What angers me is that we are Muslim, but my child will be placed in the bottom priority bucket for all of these schools because of that fact. So, despite being a higher rate tax payer, the government kindly allows these schools paid for by me as a tax payer to put my child at the bottom of the list when picking and choosing for admissions.

Has anyone had this problem? I refuse to pretend that I am Christian to get DS in as I think that is completely unethical--however I would very much like for him to attend one of these schools; their ethos and academics are exactly what I'm looking for. How would I go about getting him in????

And for anyone that suggests a fee paying school, I don't believe that I can afford it, despite working for an investment bank; I cannot trust that redundancies in the coming years won't include me as a casualty, and sending DS to a fee paying school would make any possibility of baby no. 2 an impossibility. State school, it must be...

The borough of Westminster is large - when you say City of Westminster do you mean The City in particular? It does seem that the faith schools have the best results, but you don't necessarily have to be of that faith to get a place, and you can opt out of the religious element. There are other schools that are very good such as Millbank which various MPs' children have been sent to.

Regarding Ofsted reports etc - "satisfactory" means what it says - not outstanding but perfectly ok.

OPs in Bayswater...

And most City workers I know who have come from overseas have school fees paid.

Hmmmm

Sorry, didn't see it was Bayswater. Are you near enough to any Kensington and Chelsea schools? You don't have to go to a Westminster School if you live in Westminster.

They are even worse to get into. Too many kids, too few places!

We don't know that, pick, and it is wrong to assume.

Let's see if we can help the OP find a primary school in Westminster that has a community intake.

I think the ESL is a bit of a red herring as most children will be fully bilingual. The 'refugee' types (I don't mean that badly, but just where immigrants arrive with young children and no English between them) will not be located in Westminster, I don't think. They tend to go to areas where there is already an established culture and support network for them.

I think the OP can be brought around to embracing a CofE school. Those of us who are practising Anglican will know that these schools fall well short of any catechetical instruction, and their ethos will be about kindness, community, environment etc. The school I work in is Christian and we have a school uniform hijab and are about 20% Muslim, 20% Sikh, 20% Christian. I find that people of faith are quite happy with most faith schools as the ethos is usually about all the things we have in common.

OP, don't go away. Give us a second chance. :)

I didn't assume, asked question in previous post.

Hampton Gurney has a good reputation. It's just off Edgware Rd, so not too far. The library will have a list of all the local schools. It is quite a Muslim area, so religion is a big red herring. I'd say that the vast majority of kids at Hallfield are Muslim.

Oh and the 'refugee' types - we do have a lot here as there are quite a few hostels here where families are housed.

www.schoolswebdirectory.co.uk/leasearch.php?lea=Westminster

The OP is trying to get into an argument / discussion over faith based schools and being given a priority on entrance as a higher rate tax payer. Thankfully its much different here than the US for schooling.

You either take your chances locally and by all accounts your local schools are very good and you can then get involved in the school as a volunteer etc. Or pay to go private which can be a good alternative to a state school but not always.

In the US do higher rate tax payers have priority?

Do they not have state faith schools?

No preferential treatment based on your tax bill in the US.

They don't have state-funded faith schools.

The 'refugee types' and the poor will of course be gone by April - because of housing benefit caps. (shame on this government - another story). I know a lovely school in Westminster, where just about all the children in the class are bilingual, from all over Europe and beyond, faith-based in name, but there is no need to attend church, and patronised by many atheists and those of various confessions - tiny class sizes too. Unlikely to get in to it though, unless you live in Soho or environs.

OP, are you sure that the 'faith-based' schools in your area give preference only if you are of that particular faith?

Church of England schools in particular often have admissions criteria which give priority to children from families who actively practise any of the 'mainstream' faiths, rather than only to children from practising Church of England (Anglican) families.

It would be worth a detailed read of the admissions criteria from the individual schools. I teach in a CofE school which gives no priority to children from any faith and has the same admissions criteria as a community school. My elder brother worked in C of E school which gave equal priority to children who practised any faith but did give priority to them over those from non practising / atheist families. Equally there are schools which require several years' worth of attendance at a particular church, backing from the vicar and a baptism certificate for the child dated from befoire their first birthday.

I suppose what I'm saying is 'don't discount a school just because it has C of E in its name' - it may well have admissions criteria which give no preference to C of E families as long as you live in a specified area, or may give a Muslim child the same priority as a Christian one. You need to read the admissions criteria for each school to fiund out.

Why don't you look at Kensington and Chelsea borough. Some nice schools in W10, W11.
I also know Muslim children who go to Catholic schools.

I have some sympathy with the OP. We are non-Christians who live in Westminster where 3 of our 4 nearest primary schools are Christian and so my children couldn't get in (half the places go to baptised Christians then siblings come out of the other half leaving not many places at all). Some parts of Westminster including around Bayswater are deprived (Brunel Estate for example) and there is a high level of non mother tongue english speakers (inc my DH) for example 91.8% of children at Hallfield have ESL www.education.gov.uk/establishments/urn/101116/hallfield-primary-school/pupilsworkforce
There were a reasonable number of children in my son's nursery (state) in Westminster who spoke little or no english - DS2 used to chat to them in Arabic.

We chose to go private in the end.

BostonianinLondon - Welcome to Mumsnet. Have you been to look at any of those schools? Your son is a way off going to school in any case, so why not give one of them a whirl for nursery you have to apply again for a reception school place in any case and then review it again once you know much more about the schools under consideration. And perhaps by then you'll be a little clearer about your job prospects etc.

Good luck.

wahwahwah no non Christians got into Hampton Gurney last year
transact.westminster.gov.uk/docstores/publications_store/WCC0189%20Primary_Admissions_Booklet_2011_LR.pdf

OP you might be close enough to look at the King Solomon Academy depending where exactly you live.

I just checked the situation for our nearest primary schools. Across the 3 faith based schools only 1 child (in total not each) was admitted from the local community (i.e. not on faith or sibling grounds). So out of 102 reception places 1 child who didn't meet the faith criteria nor was a sibling was admitted i.e. less that 1% of the total intake across those 3 schools. Our nearest community (non faith) school was nearly 3 times over subscribed.

This is why it is frustrating if you are a non Christian.

Although the OP perhaps didn't express it very well, it does seem an arguable point that it is unfair for a school funded primarily out of the main 'state school' pot (as C of E schools are) to exclude many of those who pay taxes into that pot, especially when there is no viable alternative in a particular area?

Perhaps if the admissions process was only allowed to give preference on 'religious' grounds in proportion to the funding received from that religion it would be fairer? That would mean that in many cases 5% or less of the places could be allocated on 'faith preference' grounds and the remainder would be on the normal 'community' oversubscription criteria?

teacherwith 2 - hear hear!

Bostonian: I think visiting the schools might set your mind at rest, or even make you enthusiastic!
I have friends with children at Millbank, who are delighted with it.
Children from ESOL families are often extremely fluent within a short while, and in any case the schools have extra money, and all KS1 classes have at least 1 teaching assistant alongside the teacher, working on small gbroups with children at differnt levels. In addition to the teachers and TAs there will be SENCOs, an EMA specialist etc etc, all helping make sure that each child works at thier own level. Remember, it isn't in a school's interest to hold any child back - the statistics would suffer!!

Children from refugee families do live in Westminster, but IME refugee families are the ones who value education above all else, understanding what it can mean in terms of liberty and development.

CoE schools can admit children of other or no faith, but I wouldn't be surprised if in inner London they are oversubscribed and therefore are, as you say, inaccessible to you.

I agree with you that publicly funded schools should not discriminate on any grounds, including religion. However, where there is a demand, muslim schools are also offered within the state system - there is a direct bus from many parts of Westminster to this school for example.

Good luck!

I just wanted to add, although this is I know not true in London with its massive over subscription for schools, but my next door neighbour used to be Head teacher at a C of E school which has at least 80% Muslim children.

In the US most rich people live in nice areas, with their own school boards. So their kids don't have to go to school with deprived kids. However if you lived in the centre of a big city (Chicago, New York) you still might have to choose to go private or send your kids to school with kids from deprived areas (if your local zoning put you in the same area as them).

Someone on higher tax rate, who also pays little rent cannot really plead poverty. Part of the reason in financial services you are paid so well is because jobs are not that secure.

You are a higher rate tax payer with no mortgage and cannot afford to pay for private education? What do you spend your income on? I am not a higher rate tax payer, have a mortgage and send my dd to an independant school because that school believe is the right school for her.