Shy July born boy...when to start school

[birdseed]

Bright but very shy July born boy, should I let him wait another year before starting reception (can do if I go for private rather than state)?

DS1 has little confidence socially and for months was going into nursery with hands over ears and eyes shut even though had been there nearly a year already(only just stopped). July born so due to start reception in sept. Am really worried that he won't be up to it socially and that it will just reinforce his lack of social confidence/social skills. But decision is harder as we think he is bright, don't know if that would be hard if oldest in year and bright.

Should we delay school entry? (ignore the state/private difference as we will do what we need to do for him)

Can delay for state too, and continue to access early yrs funding to continue nursery.
Have done it for my DS. Legally doesn't have to start school til the term after which he turns 5 ie the following Sept.
We played by ear and pondered an after Christmas start, but for various reason have deferred again, probably until September now. (He's a Summer baby too, high IQ with high functioning autism).
If you want a mid ear entry the school would have to be agreeable. Bear in mind they may prefer for him to go straight into Yr1 next year though.

mid ear?? mid-Year!

"don't know if that would be hard if oldest in year and bright"

My other DS is just a September baby - he will be the oldest in the year and seems to be very bright - although he's only 15mo! It happens even if you don't defer. There should be a differentiated curriculum to cater for all abilities in the class.

IMO, I want my son relaxed and happy first, and emotionally mature enough for a school environment - academia can wait

My DS is May born, also very shy but very very bright. He started in reception and had a tough year mostly due to a completely rubbish teacher who was clueless about everything. He is now in year 1 and is thriving. Has come out of his shell and is far more confident although still quiet in class.

I'm glad he started school when he did ie without deferring a year as being with the ' correct' peer group seems to be important to him ie he knows his friends' birthdays and how old they are in relation to him etc

HTH

Sayjay: "If you want a mid year entry the school would have to be agreeable."

Not true - if it's a state school in England or Wales, parents don't need to get anyone's agreement, they just need to inform the school of their plans. The School Admissions Code gives an absolute right to defer and the place will be kept waiting. To be sure of not losing the place in an oversubscribed school, it must be taken up by the end of the Reception year AND by the time the child reaches compulsory school age. So for a summer-born child that means by the end of Reception.

In your position, birdseed, I would wait to start school until he seemed more confident. That might even be later than the age of five - there are plenty of children who still aren't ready for a school environment at five. You could home educate in the meantime, which would allow flexibility for him to learn at his own pace. You could also get your son used to socialising as he feels ready and with your help, rather than just chucking him in with a large group of other kids all day and hoping it will work out. Delaying school start would also have the advantage of giving you a clearer picture of what your ds's social and academic needs are going to be later on. You can then choose state or private, and if private, decide which year group would be a better fit.

Many people have the idea that children with no experience of spending many hours a day in large-group environments such as nursery or school will have trouble adapting to school. But in my experience the opposite is true: they develop self-assurance by being in a situation which suits them at the time. The added maturity makes it easy when they do start school. School can be a daunting place for many four year olds, but is not so scary for a confident older child.

I would start him in his normal year -especially if you think he's bright.

Going to school should help with his confidence. School will have all sorts of tips and tricks to teach him how to make friends etc.

DD is late August born and I was terrified of her starting school - she had struggled to adapt to nursery and would cry most days at drop-off (especially when returning after a break such as Xmas, Easter, half term). DD is th school though, she is in a little village school with fantastic teaching staff and positively loves going to school - so much so, she now goes on the school bus!

I considered delaying DD's entry or starting her part-time, not because of her academic ability (she is already reading at the level of her Yr1 peers and her maths ability is the same too, she does most of group work with the Yr1 children rather than YrR ones - it is a mixed class, so she is still with her year group so to speak), but because I was worried how she would adapt emotionally. In the end, I am glad I started her at school and she is a very happy little girl. For us, private education was not an option, so if we had delayed her start by a year she would have started in Yr1 and would have missed a full year of getting to know her peers within the class. Also consider if you do opt for state education - and are offered a place at your preferred school - the LA will not hold a place for your DS for a full year; therefore, if the school is heavily subscribed your DS will actually miss out on a place - very few LA's allow children to defer for a full year and still start in reception. I have no idea about arrangements in private schools and if there is an option to defer for a full year, whilst still starting in YrR, then obviously this is something to consider if you really feel he would benefit from starting school later. Finally, another thing to consider, is the possibility of your DS starting school part-time - AFAIK, whilst some schools actively discourage it (to the point of refusing it in the first instance), it is something you are perfectly entitled to do. My friend has a DS born exactly the same day as my DD and he is at school part-time and she isn't even considering full-time until the summer term.

Good luck, I really feel for you and I know how difficult this decision is.

oops, some of my message has randomly disappeared! Second sentence should read DD is thriving at school though...

I would start on time, children grow up a lot in the six months between now and next September. But I would also suggest you consider schools very carefully. Talk to the schools you are considering in January, and see how they say they will cope with a shy child (I would look for a high adult/child ratio, which might be better with large class sizes as more TAs). You also want staff who listen to your concerns.
I would also try to do the following: invite lots of children for playdates, take him to loud places and see how he responds, take him swimming and to soft play regularly (playground in summer), talk to him about what he likes and doesn't like.
Reception is a great place to develop social skills, if you keep him back he may have to go straight into year 1, which is not as cosy, and he will have to break into friendship groups.

Thanks for the correction saracen Totally agree with your thoughts on deferring school start!

Does anyone know whether there is a right to insist on a deferred entry child's year group placing - or is it discretion of HT or LEA? (Sorry for slight hijack)

I would advise starting school in the right year as early as possible. Early years in schools is as much about making friends and developing social skills as it is about reading and number so reception is a much better place to start than Year 1. Teachers are usually very sensitive to children who are shy and give them lots of support socialising with others. Some children do cry when you drop them off at school, and it's hard as a parent to watch that. But to be honest, they don't cry for long (often only for about 30 seconds). Be aware that a maintained school will not be allowed to hold a school place into the next academic year so if you decide for Sept Y1 entry, the place may have been given to someone else.

Does anyone know whether there is a right to insist on a deferred entry child's year group placing - or is it discretion of HT or LEA? (Sorry for slight hijack)

sorry not quite sure what you mean.

but if a child has a summer birthday you can defer entry to reception until the summer term and the school would keep the place open ... if you decided to wait until the following year you would have to reapply for a Y1 place and depending on the popularity of the school may not get a place.

Many people have the idea that children with no experience of spending many hours a day in large-group environments such as nursery or school will have trouble adapting to school. But in my experience the opposite is true: they develop self-assurance by being in a situation which suits them at the time.

my experience is completely different but my personal feeling is that every child is different and there isn't a right or wrong answer ... some children will thrive and some children will struggle and the person who can best judge is usually mum.

"my experience is completely different but my personal feeling is that every child is different and there isn't a right or wrong answer ... some children will thrive and some children will struggle and the person who can best judge is usually mum."

Very true.

Consider also that the children you've seen who have started school later than their peers may have been kept home for a good reason: not being a good "fit" for school. They may be the type of children who were never going to flourish in a school environment, but at least by waiting until they are a bit older they have a better chance of coping. Compared to children whose parents were quite happy to send them to school at four because they looked like they'd flourish there, this group may struggle - but that doesn't mean they would have done any better if they had started earlier. To quote someone who home educates a child with autism, "Everyone seems to think my child has become autistic because he's been home educated. Why can't they understand that he's home educated because he's autistic?!"

If you look at cultures where children don't start nursery or school at a young age - including our own society in the past - people don't report problems with adjustment to school when children do start. When I was little, children rarely went to nursery and then started school at five, straight from home. This wasn't seen to be a problem. Now the whole process of getting-them-ready-for school begins much younger. Has school become a more difficult environment for children than it once was, do you think? Why do we now have to start preparing children for it at three and reckon they'll suffer by waiting until five?

Consider also that the children you've seen who have started school later than their peers may have been kept home for a good reason: not being a good "fit" for school.

That isn't my experience ... these children take longer to settle than children who have been to nursery or pre school etc but they do "fit in" with their peers although initially seeking a great deal of adult approval.

I don't think pre school or nursery is about getting young children ready for school but I do think it is to some extent about getting them ready for "society". When I was a child I was a member of an extended family, unlike today's children who may only see grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins at special occasions because of distance. I was also part of my local community and played out with friends from a very young age, unlike todays children who often don't know the children in the same street and only go to the park with parents and certainly never play in the street.

I started school just after my fourth birthday having never been to nursery and it wasn't a problem because I knew everyone and everyone knew me.

I deferred for a year for my son and it has transformed his life-chances (not just my opinion, teachers agree). So he's in year1 now, an August-boy who's the oldest in his year.

We were in the state sector - Bradford was flexible then as Scotland still is.

re: cleverness. if it is a mixed school, many little girls will be on a par with him I suspect. But another friend of mine did the same as me and then actively chose to skip year 1 and go straight to year 2 as her son was so ahead.

but agree with others who say it depends on the individual.

Thank you all for taking so much time to reply with your thoughts. Much appreciated. Decision is a bit more tricky as our catchment primary has a double sized reception class - so over 50 kids in same room as the same class. The staff ratios are as normal but am worried that as a very shy child he might get lost in such a huge class and hs social confidence might get worse not better.
Am going to have another look at both schools and see which is best for him and make an appointment with head if private one to discuss entry to school nursery not reception, and see what they reckon. I wish he had been sept born (think 5 or 6 wks later in yr would have done it) given his shyness then I wouldn't even have this dilemma!

Lingle when in Aug is you son? Is he the very end ?
And how did your friend's child get on with the delay and then year skip? is she still glad she did it? Did she fed he benefitted from delay? And did he find the jump tough?
I feel it would be fantastic for my son's confidence but just worried about whether he would be bored in due course, like my mum keeps saying he would be. I sort of figure better bored and confident though. And may not be bored anyway.

And may not be confident anyway

DS2's (July birthday, SN) due to start in September and the LA have told me there are 4 options.

1. Start in September full time as normal;
2. Apply for Year 1 and risk not getting a place;
3. Start in September and negotiate a part time arrangement with the school;
4. Apply now, get him on roll for reception then continue to send him to the school nursery. As he's a July birthday, he will have to take up his place in the reception class by the following April BUT even if he's in the reception class he could do p/t, as in option 3.

Schools are loth to recommend option 4 because they have to save a reception place for the child but get no funding for them. So same number on roll, less cash. (According to LA advisor.)

I think we're plumping for option 3 at the moment. I think he'll find it hard to break into a reception class that has had time to bond without him if he joins half way through the year. Same for Year 1 entry. Even if he were to get a place the leap between reception and Year 1 is huge and going straight into more formalised learning would be a shock to the system...

Good luck.

We had a long thread on funding a while back.

Funding is due to numbers on role in January - so school would def not loose money if child started in Jan not Sep.

But I can't remember if school looses funding if child started in July or not - because they were still actually on the role in Jan......

I think it depends upon the individual child. My dd was born very late August and so she started school about 5 days after she was 4 (she didn't attend any nursery). But she has always been very able (g&t and all that rubbish) even from the start. Teacher asked me on first day whether she was really 4 because she is very tall for her age and was the biggest/tallest in her class (and still is and she is now 12). Dd has always been very quiet and shy and just gets on with her school work but starting school at just 4 didn't worry her a bit. I was worried as she had never mixed with any young children before that. Before she was born, I was the youngest in the family (and i was 32 when dd started school) so a little apprehensive of how she would cope. She was fine. Although she didn't used to talk much (and doesn't much now really) she was always very popular at school and had lots of friends. Good luck with your children everyone and happy christmas.

Lingle when in Aug is you son? Is he the very end ? YES

"And how did your friend's child get on with the delay and then year skip? is she still glad she did it?Did she fed he benefitted from delay? And did he find the jump tough?"
Her son is not shy but was still having violent tantrums at 3 and needed the extra year. The "extra" year at home was the first year with him my friend actually enjoyed. He ploughs his own furrow and showed many developmental differences. he's more of the classic "confident geek" type child - never played with toys, now convinced he's the world's best cellist, very competitive, that kind of thing. So he settled quite quickly into his "true self" - a personality that will soften with guidance but won't really change. Very different from your lad I think.

"I feel it would be fantastic for my son's confidence but just worried about whether he would be bored in due course, like my mum keeps saying he would be. I sort of figure better bored and confident though. And may not be bored anyway.

my own experience was again of course so different. My son was a clever late-talker, still overcoming his serious language delays. He simply wouldn't have been able to access the reception curriculum at 4.0. At 5.0 he could. Simple as that. Saved the tax-paper an awful lot of money :)

To give you a teacher's view, I'll see if I can find an old letter from a Bradford headmaster that he sent in to protest when Bradford changed its policy.