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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Can schools punish kids for wearing the wrong uniform?

55 replies

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 09:03

I saw something about this on Netmums, when I googled it and was also told by someone at the ACE helpline a while back that they can't punish children for breach of uniform policy,

however when I looked at the updated guidance for schools on the DofE website, it says a headteacher can discipline a pupil for breach of uniform policy.

I need to find the bit, if there still is a bit, that says they're not allowed to do this (talking about primary school if it's relevant).

Thankyou anyone who knows about this stuff.

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Original poster

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 09:05

here

Has it changed since Sept?

OP posts:

Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 09:32

How it works in our school is that we have a strict uniform policy which is enforced. If there is a temporary reason for non-compliance, such as a sore foot, almost the end of term and not wanting to buy new shoes, reasonable accommodation for sn, then the school is prepared to negotiate.
We have a good second-hand and new uniform shop run by the PTA.
If parents are just unhappy with the rules without specific reasons that have been discussed, then they have the option of choosing to move schools.
It is seen as part of what you agree to when you join the school.

Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 09:35

By punishment, are you meaning things like being withdrawn from PE because of not having the correct equipment?
Uniform is seen as being the responsibility of the parent, not the child, so you'd be getting letters rather than a child being punished.

bigTillyMincepie · 11/12/2011 09:36

I see this is in Primary - IME there is not usually a "punishment" for a primary-aged child, but the parents would be contacted to find out why, and how they were going to sort it asap.

Original poster

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 09:43

Thanks, yes primary.

It's just something they thought wasn't in compliance - when in fact it was - and they made ds change into part of his PE kit for the rest of the day, rather than contact me to ask me to remedy the situation.

Turns out they were wrong anyway and they have now agreed to allow him to wear the item - but I am angry that they upset ds by making him change, making him feel worried, stigmatised, and afraid I'd be cross with him.

I see uniform as beyond his control. I think they should have addressed any concerns to me. It would be useful to have this in writing somewhere though as backup, as I've been told they aren't allowed to address the issue with the child, and I can't find anything now to support this.

Thankyou btw

OP posts:

Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 09:53

How old is your DS?

Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 09:54

Ask for a copy of their school uniform policy, it should have a section on how transgressions are to be dealt with. If it doesn't, they need to write one.

Original poster

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 09:57

He's yr4, and they don't appear to have a uniform policy on the website at all - despite the governors recommending that they update it.

OP posts:

Original poster

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 09:59

He's also very very keen to conform and to comply.

My feeling is she was picking on him, because she could. He was really upset about it. I hate children being punished and told off when they didn't mean any harm. She's always doing it about just about everything he does. (another thread perhaps!)

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Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 10:07

Then the fault is entirely the school's, if they are going to enforce a policy it needs to be written and available to all whom it affects. 'Tis an OFSTED issue as well!
Write or email and point out their mistakes, insist they have an up to date policy and ask that the situation of blame without fault never occurs again for any child. Obviously the teacher doesn't know the rules either.
If you think she's picking on him, start a record and paper trail of evidence so that you have ammunition if you choose to challenge her. Just saying 'You're being unfair and mean' isn't as effective as times, dates and accounts.

rubyrubyruby · 11/12/2011 10:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cansu · 11/12/2011 11:51

why are you wasting your time on this? Your child was told off and made to wear his plimsolls because the teacher thought his shoes were trainers (I remember your thread I think)., you made a fuss, HT said Ok wear them and you are now looking for evidence to support your claim that the school shouldn't have told your ds off in the first place! You seem more upset than he is tbh. I would honestly save your energy for more serious, important issues.

mnistooaddictive · 11/12/2011 11:53

I agree with cansu- was about to type exactly that. A mistake was made, move on! Do you never make mistakes?

Original poster

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 12:45

Thankyou, Dustinthewind, that's really helpful and I will do so.

Others - yes, that was my thread (I haven't namechanged just to repeat it, don't worry)
but I have not heard from the teacher since emailing her and I have asked her what their policy is. I want to know what the rules are about this so I'm better placed for an argument if there is one.

I don't wish to compel anyone to answer my thread so please feel free not to, or are we only allowed one thread about any particular issue? I didn't post on the other one as it's been abandoned for several days now and I didn't think anyone would read it.

Thanks.

OP posts:

Original poster

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 12:48

and really, why are you wasting your time replying to a thread started by someone who is, erm, wasting their time?

Of course I make mistakes but I like to apologise for them, I don't think this teacher does, and I'm afraid when she comes back to teach ds again next year she will continue to do this if I don't sort it out with her now.

And it isn't just about the shoes.

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prh47bridge · 11/12/2011 13:55

Contrary to popular myth primary schools can discipline children who are not wearing school uniform. The document to which you link is correct. I am disappointed if the ACE helpline say different but this isn't the first time I've come across them giving poor advice.

Bossybritches22 · 11/12/2011 14:44

I'm always a bit when I read these threads.

If you choose a school for your DC's that has a uniform, then you get a copy of the policy at some point & read it before/as you apply surely?

You then decide (along with other factors) whether their rules are a
deal-breaker for you, or OTT for your budget,some schools having horrendously costly formal ware. Therefore you as a parent have to kit your child out appropriately so he/she doesn't get told off. Yes the complaint should come to the parent but the child has to learn to stick to the rules too, that's life.

The school our DD's go to has an expensive blazer but it has a great reputation & they have been happy & done well there.

I know some areas have more choice than others but that's the way it goes sadly. There is always a choice, often just not ones we like.

You can't pick & mix IMHO.

snowball3 · 11/12/2011 15:01

I'm a bit unsure as to why you are making so much fuss too. The teacher clearly thought that the shoes your child was wearing were trainers ( and the links you have posted certainly looked like trainers to me but hey!) and asked them to change into plimsolls instead. You objected and approached the Head who, either disagreed with the teachers judgement or just wanted a quiet life so has said your child can wear the offending articles. This doesn't mean that the teacher was wrong in her opinion, just that the Head disagrees ( for whatever reason) It hardly seems like anything to make such a song and dance about! If your child felt "worried, stigmatised and afraid" then he's going to have to grow a thicker skin before Secondary school!

scaevola · 11/12/2011 15:12

I am almost laughing at statements like "they have the option of choosing to move schools" and "If you choose a school for your DC's that has a uniform, then you get a copy of the policy at some point & read it before/as you apply surely?"

These can only have been made by lucky parents in an area where there is an actual choice, and it is just plain wrong to assume everyone has a choice. Not the places where there is a total shortfall against the number of children (long journey or hurried arranged bulge class only option) or rural - bus only goes to one place, all others cut by LA.

clam · 11/12/2011 15:24

"Write or email and point out their mistakes, insist they have an up to date policy"
"start a record and paper trail of evidence"

Or you could Get A Life and move on. How is you harbouring petty grudges helping your son?

Bossybritches22 · 11/12/2011 15:26

scaevola that is still a choice, not saying it's acceptable but still a choice, was going to put that but had rambled on enough.

If the uniform is such a big issue what I'm saying is you CHOOSE whether or not its a biggie for you to have to move /do long journey/arrange other options. If it's putting up with a crap uniform policy at the only nearby school or moving your family to where the school has not got one or trekking across the county to access a different one then it's your CHOICE.

For me it wouldn't be worth it so I'd put up & shut up (& have done) & come on here for a moan!

Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 15:28

I'm a teacher, I have a rather over-stuffed life.
The comment about evidence and a paper trail is related to the OP's comment about thinking the teacher is picking on her son on other occasions without cause. If she wants to challenge what's happening, she'll need some sort of evidence rather than the usual MN groundless grumbles.

The need for a policy is that if you are enforcing rules, everyone needs to know what they are. How is that odd?

Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 15:30

Oh, and I didn't read the other thread.

mrz · 11/12/2011 15:30

just to be clear ... was the punishment having to wear plimsolls for the day or was there some other punishment involved?

clam · 11/12/2011 15:50

I must admit it does seem a bit strange that the "punishment" (if that is what it was) for wearing trainers is... to wear trainers for the rest of the day.

That said, the whole tone of the OP's posts in this thread and her other one is quite aggressive and combative. She seems more concerned with challenging the school and "getting one over on them" and "proving" that her son is being "victimised," than just accepting that there are some petty rules in life that we might not particularly subscribe to but that it's probably best just to put up and shut up. She's not doing herself or her son any favours at all with this attitude.

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