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Primary education

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Can schools punish kids for wearing the wrong uniform?

55 replies

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 09:03

I saw something about this on Netmums, when I googled it and was also told by someone at the ACE helpline a while back that they can't punish children for breach of uniform policy,

however when I looked at the updated guidance for schools on the DofE website, it says a headteacher can discipline a pupil for breach of uniform policy.

I need to find the bit, if there still is a bit, that says they're not allowed to do this (talking about primary school if it's relevant).

Thankyou anyone who knows about this stuff.

OP posts:
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missmapp · 11/12/2011 15:56

This kind of moaning about schools and teachers is pointless and annoys me. Yes, the teacher made a mistake, but really is being made to wear plimsolls for one day that bad? I think schools need our support and backing, you spoke to the head, it was sorted, so move on. If the teacher kept harping back to an old issue with a child, you would be the first to complain.

Yes I am a teacher, and yes i probably am being unreasonable, but sometimes we are whipped too many times!!!

scaevola · 11/12/2011 16:28

"that is still a choice, not saying it's acceptable but still a choice, was going to put that but had rambled on enough"

Hobson's choice - this or nothing (and if nothing, be prosecuted). It's the reality for many families. Being able to choose on the basis of anything, let alone something like uniform, is a distant dream for thousands and thousands of parents.

NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 17:02

thanks PRH.

OP posts:
NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 17:04

Bossy, I'm not daft. I chose the school, I accepted the uniform as it was - they changed it last summer - it's now hideous, but no matter. That's irrelevant.
This thread isn't anything to do with that, it's a clear and simple request for a specific piece of information which thankfully two people have sought to provide, for which I am grateful.

I'm not going to respond to the other comments, particularly the rude ones as they're irrelevant.
cheerio

OP posts:
NoradPlacentaTracker · 11/12/2011 17:07

Sorry Mrz - it was just that, but it meant he felt stigmatised (yes really) and she was rude about it to him, as she is often rude to him - she's a bully and I think shutting up and putting up with bullying even if it's from a teacher isnt appropriate or helpful to anyone least of all ds.

Where am I combative? I'm responding to a sequence of incidents which have upset my own child and several others. It makes me feel upset and worried, and yes a bit angry. So?

OP posts:
mrz · 11/12/2011 17:20

I just wondered if this was the punishment or there was something on the thread I obviously haven't read

IndigoBell · 11/12/2011 17:27

Please remember that you need to keep a good working relationship with the school while your child is there.

It is really hard to mend broken relationships. Your child has a lot of years left there.

If you can't move school, then you can't afford to destroy our relationship with the HT and other key people.

JaneBirkin · 11/12/2011 17:45

thankyou. I don't think I've destroyed the relationship with the HT - and ds1 only has 2-3 years left there. We did fall out fairly comprehensively last term but have sorted it in a superficial way. So we are talking again and working together for the benefit of both children. I hesitate to trust her now, but as you say a working relationship is needed and that's what we have got.

The class teacher is about to go on ML, so in theory I don't mind losing the goodwill if that's what it takes. I have stayed polite and she just hasn't bothered to reply - she barely bothered to in the classroom when we discussed it there.

she is rude, dismissive and defensive and has fallen out with about a hundred different sets of parents since the start of the autumn term, because of her attitude, so it's not me.
She even accused another parent - the mildest, quietest, slow speaking, gentle person you can imagine, of being 'aggressive', which just shows how out of touch she is with reality.

So please don't worry, I'm responding in a way that's needed - I've not fallen out with any other teacher since we started at the school several years ago, despite a misunderstanding or problem here and there such as is inevitable.
I really, really like and rate almost every single teacher in the school. However I knew before the term began that we might have some issues, gave it our best shot, and gave her a good old chance, and to be fair she has been marvellous on occasion but it's building into a picture that is mainly problematic tbh, and I am glad she is going.

The whole point of this thread was to establish my standing in terms of whether she is allowed to punish my child for something beyond his control or not, and it appears she is, which to me is nonsensical.

AICM · 11/12/2011 18:29

I bet every teacher in the school is dreading having your child next year.

AICM · 11/12/2011 18:33

I'm dure whoever is taking over this class for the materity leave has already been warned about you.

JaneBirkin · 11/12/2011 18:44

You're probably her, aren't you? lol Xmas Smile

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 11/12/2011 20:50

There have been several threads in primary education which have discussed enforcement of uniform in primary schools. Find them, as they link to all the relevant documents and explain that primary schools can (if they choose) take steps to enforce their uniform policy.

SeasonsGripings · 11/12/2011 22:12

I know it's not what you asked but a decent person does not punish a child for their parent's mistakes...it's totally unjust. Yes they made a mistake - maybe one, maybe many, who would know - when there is no acknowledgement.

Teachers rarely admit to mistakes...why is that? Headteachers back their teachers in public even when it is clear that they've screwed up - parents are not stupid - the bullshit just creates more distrust.

usualsuspect · 11/12/2011 22:16

Threads like this just reinforce my hatred of school uniforms ,what a palaver over a pair of bloody shoes

JustRedbin · 11/12/2011 22:22

You know what your child should wear to school. Make sure he complies.

Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 22:26

'Teachers rarely admit to mistakes...why is that?'

Because we are power-crazed Goddesses who want our own cult?
Tribute season approaches, there are threads.

nailak · 11/12/2011 22:27

Was it really a punishment?

SeasonsGripings · 11/12/2011 22:31

Feel the same usual suspect always wonder why teachers are not focusing on educating rather than picking on kids for their lack of uniform.

My Mum used to attend a boarding school - she knew her parents couldn't afford to buy her a new gym skirt so she didn't tell them she had outgrown it and she endured countless punishments to spare her parents financial hardship. Sad

5318hoho8 · 11/12/2011 22:31

confused

is JaneBirkin the OP?

rubyrubyruby · 11/12/2011 22:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dustinthewind · 11/12/2011 22:45

'Feel the same usual suspect always wonder why teachers are not focusing on educating rather than picking on kids for their lack of uniform.'

Because we are employees who are expected to uphold and enforce whatever the current policy is on anything. Then when it changes, we have to be just as diligent with the new rules. SMT are our bosses.
If you don't like it, the parents have the power to change things. So protest.

JaneBirkin · 12/12/2011 10:42

I don't feel annoyed by teachers trying to uphold the rules. I really don't.

Dustinthewind I really appreciated your comments earlier and didn't anticipate people having a go at teachers in general.

I have NO problem with uniform as we signed up to a school with uniform, though I would prefer that there had been one without to choose. There wasn't, it's Ok, within reason.

What I have a problem with, well it's twofold (and yes, I'm the Op - sorry)

Firstly I have a great big issue with pettiness, and when the rules get taken beyond what is reasonable and past any sort of goodwill, common sense or mutual respect and into the realms of jobsworth.

I'm not pretending that they don't need to have rules, and to stick by them as far as possible.

But if you're going to have rules, they have to be clearly published, known thoroughly by all who have power to enforce them (yes that means the HT as well as the class teacher) and without room for misinterpretation.

Standing in the playground this morning among a group of 6 boys, in my child's class, almost all of them were wearing shoes that looked, and in one case were, very much like training shoes. MOREso than my child's but most were black so they don't notice so much, everyone assumes they're from Clarks so they're not picked out. One pair was brown.

Rules should also be consistent.
The breaking of rules should be attributable to the person responsible and in our case that would be me, as my son cannot afford to purchase his own shoes and he wears the ones I tell him to wear.

That's my second problem - his being villified for doing something which I TOLD HIM TO DO, which made him scared of my reaction AND the teacher's reaction. she told him off for sharing his spare paper FFS, she's out to cause the children upset at any cost. Many parents have expressed a desire not to contribute to a leaving gift for her as we don't feel she has made any effort to like or encourage our children and has fallen out with many of us as parents.

She is choosing a child she knows is keen to please and do as he is told, keen to conform, and making him feel awful, on purpose, because she can. That's all as far as I can see, and still no response whatsoever to either of my emails, and no eye contact this morning.

If I wasn't so keen to give people the benefit of the doubt, and see two sides to every character, I would just call her a cow and have done with it, but anyway, she must have her reasons for acting as she does and I would simply rather she didn't do it, not to my child and not to others.

In answer to AICM I already know the teacher who is taking over, she's brilliant, she has them certain days already. She tries to consider their feelings and their education. She's a reasonable person. They're not afraid of her. We all like her a lot. I don't care if she's been 'warned' about me - I haven't done anything wrong and neither has she.

If the teachers were afraid of me I'd worry about their sanity because I'm a normal parent who takes issue with things I'm concerned about, as are most parents here and they have nothing to be afraid of. I always listen to the teacher's side IF PUT to me and normally find I'm in agreement with them.

So what you said last night, though unpleasant, wasn't terribly relevant.
Thanks again for all the helpful comments.

itsstartingtofeelalotlikexmas · 12/12/2011 21:19

Ha ha
Love that you take it so seriously
It does sound like your fed up of the school tbh
I think there's been other issues too?

strictlovingmum · 12/12/2011 21:41

If you got the uniform list at the beginning of the academic year, you comply with it, you as parent have to make sure he is waring what he should for the day.
Wearing plimsols for one day, isn't really a punishment, might seem unfair to you/us, but it is not harsh punishment.
Let go if you can for both of your sake, of the negative feelings which if persistent may damage your child relationship with school (labeled as difficult) not good.
You as role model to your child, perhaps should not show so much resistance for the authority/school in front of your DS, it might come back to bite you on the bum as it did IME.Smile chill.

strictlovingmum · 12/12/2011 21:54

Last week DD Y1 wasn't allowed playtime, cos we were late two consecutive mornings, What was I suppose to say?, I apologised to DD promised to do everything in my power to wake up 5 minutes earlier and left it at that.
Confused I could have asked the school to punish me instead of DD, there is the thought.Grin

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