New phonetics screening tests; testing the use of the method, not the skill of the 6yr old reader surely?

[yummymummyreally]

So why is the Department of Health so obsessed with testing young children's reading "method", rather than their ability to read... Or, or I don't know, maybe checking if they have an interest in stories, are engaged with the written word? But no. The new phonetics screening tests for 6yr olds check if they are specifically decoding words with phonetics, rather than using other methods like "context" for example.... Gggrrrr. I don't understand this!

What do you think? Is method that important?

I mean a change of Government wouldn't help the speed of implementation mrz.

The capital letter/lower case letter thing is I presume an attempt to minimise the confusion over names and sounds, such as was expressed up thread. It is often quoted on here as a sign that someone is 'thick' when it is most likely a construct to guard against misconceptions/confusion.

My DS2 is in reception and being taught phonics excellently by an NQT - he can already blend 7 letter words (custard/mustard ).

So if a child is called Bethany Bee e th a n ee Cameron See a m er o n it causes the confusion described earlier in the thread more and it is simply untrue and demonstrates the teacher doesn't know what they are talking about.

I'm not saying it is a great idea mrz.

I'm saying it is a very dangerous thing to tell a child if you want them to be able to read

So if teachers are being taught this then ITT needs to be reviewed

It is not sacrilege to say that when we are talking about the letter names we will use capital letters, just to remind you that we are talking about their names but when we are talking about the sounds that letters make we will use lowercase letters, just to remind you that we are focusing on the sounds. Or, heaven forbid to even say that both lower and upper case letters have both a name and a sound. You are being too much of a 'purist' about it all mrz .

Or, heaven forbid to even say that both lower and upper case letters have both a name and a sound.

That is exactly what any teacher worth their salary would say pickledsiblings and to say anything else is frankly stupidity

You are being too much of a 'purist
no I'm being accurate

Of course that is what any teacher would say. It's just that saying that doesn't preclude them from making a distinction between the case of letters for the sake of 'book-keeping'. You are just being awkward now. 'Tis a huge thing in America you know, the whole uppercase letters = letter names. But no one thinks that uppercase letters don't make a range of sounds just as they don't think that lowercase letters don't have names. You don't seriously think they do, do you?

I also think it would be confusing (because inaccurate) for a teacher to tell small children that the upper case letter is the "letter name" and the lower case letter the "letter sound". All children start off learning the way their own name is written, in upper and lower case, so they know that the upper case/lower case name/sound distinction is untrue.

pickledsiblings - the teaching of reading in the US is a huge, disastrous old-fashioned mess

Not you too Bonsoir! The distinction is just for book-keeping. It is not a rule, much as you love rules an' all .

I don't keep my books wrong, and children don't need to either . mrz is spot on here!

'book keeping'??

Eh???

It is not wrong to say 'for the purpose of discussion, let the capital letter represent the name of the letter', how is it? It is certainly no more wrong than accepting phonetically plausible attempts at spelling .

Last I checked, the adult literacy rates for the UK and the US were the same btw.

Agreed - spot on.

Good God, that is quite the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.
Beggars belief.

But no one thinks that uppercase letters don't make a range of sounds just as they don't think that lowercase letters don't have names. You don't seriously think they do, do you?

After telling a teacher that capitals do represent sounds and lower case have names and being told I am wrong because her university told her they don't I know that some people believe it to be true. Incidentally two students from the same university were teaching the same thing ... and when you are four and the teacher tells you it's true ... no one will convince you otherwise

and no it isn't being taught as a distinction

Moondog, by 'book keeping' I mean 'keeping track' of whether or not one is talking about/referring to the names of letters vs the sounds that they make.

It is not wrong to say 'for the purpose of discussion, let the capital letter represent the name of the letter', how is it? because we often say for the purpose of discussion to four year olds and they understand that we don't really mean that only capitals have names

What university is that?
I'd like to think it weas something like the Risborough Online College of Make Believe but it's probably somewhere reasonably well thought of I bet.

Jesus. If peopel believe tripe like this, we are fucked, quite frankly.
However judging by the illiterate children I come across on a daily basis, that happened long ago.

PS, if you want to keep track of what terminology to use for what, I'd recommend a basic course in the acoustic sciences of Phonetics and Phonology not just,'you know, making stuff up as you go along.

Even very average 5 year old, if there is such thing will understand that with capital/big letters we give importance: names of countries, cities, people, starting sentences, starting questions and so on, but both upper and lower case letters are represented by the same sound and are called the same.
Very simple really.
Also agree, spot on.

It is not wrong to say that capital letters have names and it is not wrong to say that lowercase letters make sounds. You are all potty.

mrz, 'when I show you the capital letter, I want you to say the letter name but when I show you the small letter I want you to tell me the letter sound', really, it's not worth rubbishing a whole generation of trainee teachers over, is it???

A quick skim over the 'capitals when we refer to x and lower case when we refer to y' stuff had me doing a double-take - hate to think what would happen if my just-5 year old was being taught anything like that

She has learned, already (ie in Reception) that people and place names start with capital letters, that every lower case letter has a corresponding capital, and that capitals and lower case letters share a name and a sound. No confusion whatsoever.

I can now only assume this is some sort of silly joke.