ex-h and I disagreeing on choice of school - objective opinions really needed

[QueenOfLists]

We've narrowed our choice down to 2 - both have outstanding ofsted reports, both are within 1.5 miles.

a) Catholic school (we're not catholic) - has an excellent local reputation for the quality of the teaching and the high standards of behaviour of the children. However, the school building is quite small and has a more 'cramped' feeling than the other. Also, we're finding it difficult to get a handle on how much religious aspect there is - it seems quite a lot with the local priest being in and out of the school all the time, prayers maybe twice daily, and masses on high days. The school prospectus says RE should occupy 10% of the timetable, and year 6 go on a 'retreat'(!)

or b) non-faith school - has a good reputation and the buildings are all new and spacious. However it's a larger school (45 intake rather than 30, plus a nursery of 60) and the structure of the classes seems overcomplicated (older ones from one year with younger ones of year above). Also, their open day is scheduled for sometime in January (possibly after the admissions closing date!) - we did arrange to be shown round this week, but it was by the receptionist, not the headteacher, and she initially was only going to show us the reception class, we had to ask to see the rest of the school. We didn't see any of the older children in classes as it was breaktime so we couldn't really get an impression of the teaching.

DD currently goes to a very small nursery, which she loves. Some of her friends from there are going to each of the two schools so from a social point of view either would suit.

At the moment ex-h favours one and I favour the other (not saying which!) but I'm getting a bit lost in the pros/cons of each - can somebody give me some perspective please?!

If you don't agree with the religious aspect of the Catholic school, you shouldn't send your child there.

Which one will you get into?

i cannot understand why you would send your child to a faith school if you're not of that faith and you have another choice

Have you looked in details at the Catholic school's admissions policy? From what I believe, your DD must be baptised Catholic and you should have regular church attendance (this is the case for all RC schools I know of) - essentially, does your DD have any hope at all of getting in to the RC school? Also, you say both schools are within 1.5 miles - do you live within the catchments for these schools or outside?

Depending on where you live and the schools' admissions policies, it may be that your DD isn't likely to get in to either school, particularly if they're popular and oversubscribed!

I agree with others - if you're not catholic and you're worried about the level of RE before you even get there then I would suggest this is not the school for you.

And, as an aside, don't be put off by the fact you were shown round the other school by the receptionist. Any school secretary who's any good will know the school as well as the head (at least, ours does) and she should be able to give you just as good a tour as the head. You should then be able to speak to the head after your tour - did you get that opportunity?

The education department's school guide states that it's the parent with whom the child spends the majority of time with who should choose the school. By this is suppose they mean fill in the online form.

We've had several visits to each of our favourite schools. On the whole we never got much of an idea of teaching methods although we observed several classes. But we did get philosophies from the head teachers in all cases.

Does your daughter have an equal chance of being accepted by both schools? After all, the eventual decision is made by the school and LA, anyway.

I think the argument is about which school to place as the higher preference on the form rather than anything else. And this is where I started my reply. The parent who looks after the child most is recommended to make this choice.

dd will get a statement of needs, so she should pretty much get into whichever school we choose. The catholic school last year took 5 non-catholics out of 30.

We've never been offered an opportunity to speak to the headmistress, or any of the teaching staff for that matter, at the non-faith school. Maybe that should be the next step.

Does anybody have views on large vs small schools (number of children that is, not building size)?

Sorry, yes, we're in the catchment area for both schools, and in the parish boundary for the faith school.

I have found bigger schools better for children with sn - just my experience, they just have a better provision as far as I can see as it is a numbers game.

I genuinely don't know why you would even look at a Catholic school if you have such and issue with the religious aspect.

"Also, we're finding it difficult to get a handle on how much religious aspect there is"

The parish priest will be the head of the board of governors and will pop in a lot and will probably have lunch with the dcs once a week or so. The Sisters will probably be around a lot too. 10% of the timetable is for Catholic teaching, plus extra RE for other religions. There is an RE Ofsted as well as the normal one and the diocesan board of education sets the RE curriculum. There will be masses in school which may also be the parish mass on holy days of obligation. The school needs to find some funding itself so there will be a staggering amount of fundraising done. The Catholic children will make their first Holy Communion when they are 7-8 which is a huge deal. Lots of the dcs will see each other on Sundays, as will a lot of the parents. They will pray at least 3x a day, probably more like 5, esp if they do the Angelus. They will have hymn practise and learn prayers such as the Our Father, Hail Mary, Gloria and the Creed by heart.

If your daughter has a statement, I would look around more widely, as there maybe a school further away that meets her needs more closely. I would also request to speak to the SENCo at all schools you are considering in order to discuss your daughters needs and how willing/experienced they are at meeting them. SENCos and schools vary massively.
You cannot choose a school for a child with special needs without talking to the SENCo and preferrably some class teachers.

agree about better provision in bigger schools

and you absolutely must speak to the SENCO before you make your mind up: don't let yourself be fobbed off by some secretary or headteacher telling you that her school is very good with SEN: see the SENCO and discuss specific situations

Why not ask the existing parents at the school gate, try to get a few to list the pro's and con's as they have found it ? . I wouldn't get too hung up on all the praying. Having worked as an outside consultant in both RC and non-denominational schools you will generally find a much more active PTA and parents' network in the catholic one, they don't really care what religion you are if you are prepared to help. Lots of opportunity to make more friends. Vast majority of RC parents pay don't attend mass once the dc has completed their first communion. Looks to me like you are spoiled for choice. good luck!

If you are not catholic and are concerned about the amount of religion you should not consider the catholic school.

45 in a school year seems tiny to me - my local outstanding primary school is 90 per year! Agree with the others, wouldnt consider a Catholic school if I wasnt Catholic - you wouldnt consider a Muslim or Jewish school would you.

I am not really sure why you are even considering the Catholic school as an option if you are not Catholic and you think RE and prayers are a bit much. If its any consolation DS went to a 1.5 form entry school and was only in a composite class twice over 7 years.

Re the special needs - she's only got a minor physical disability, so while technically she'll get one it's not an issue that will determine which school she goes to really. She doesn't need any particular education needs.

I did go to a Catholic 6th form college and the religious side was quite minor (mass once a term plus weekly assemblies and a weekly RE lesson) and it didn't really impact on me. I'd assumed that was typical of all types of Catholic school so I'm quite surprised that the religious aspect seems much greater than that. It does have an excellent reputation for teaching though, which is the reason I'm considering it.

Enid - that's really helpful, thanks, and does seem to tie in with what the school's told us. I've heard about the fundraising side from one of the parents too - there's a lot of it!

Queen of Lists, I would ask how far down the SEN route you actually are because if you have not got it arranged by now, you are cutting it rather fine for ensuring that you do get it arranged for the admission process to work properly. Just how certain are you of getting a statement because in many LAs a minor physical disability will not actually result in a statement.
I would be very tempted to say that the larger school is more likely to have the expertise to handle what special needs your child has, but you really need to talk to the school head and to the SENCO to form your own opinion.
Disagreeing with your ex when neither of you have really explored the situation in relation to your child's special needs is a waste of effort, as is assuming that Ofsted outstanding schools are the most appropriate schools, they may well be exactly the type of school not to send your child to.

We've already seen an occupational therapist - she's happy to put a statement together. But yes, take your point about the SENCO - will see if we can talk to them as well.

QOL - not certain whether you mean 'a Statement' as in being granted a Statement of SEN, or a statement of your child's needs as the OT sees them.

We only have 2 children with statements in my school. One has moderate learning difficulties, impaired sight and some physical difficulties. The other has moderate learning difficulties, severe speech difficulties and ASD. To get these has required a long process of specialist reports from paediatricians, behavioural specialists, various medical specialists, SALT, observations in school, etc etc, all with a presupposition that a statement is NOT needed against which the school and parents have had to argue.

Are you confident that you would get a Statement of SEN for the difficulties you describe? Giving a statement is not in the OT's power.

I think as you went to catholic school for 6th form the religious aspect was lessened, but in primary school it is much more full on.

I personally would not send my child to a catholic school with another decent choice available.

QueenofLists - my oldest DD has diabetes, epilepsy and coeliac disease as well as dyspraxia and dyslexia and she cannot get a statement. Just an occ therapist would not be able to put a statement together - it requires a lot of people's input and takes months and months. Please make sure you leave enough time to get it sorted (and argue the toss if they are not up for it)

dd goes to an outstanding catholic primary and hardly any formal religious stuff is taught - more 'love thy neighbour' - im not catholic, dd is and so far her school doesn't teach more religion than my friends community school. so check- they vary massively!

er... suddenly I'm not sure about the statement thing - we were advised by dd's geneticist to get a "statement of needs" from the ot. That was it - had no idea there were different types of statement! She certainly wouldn't be eligible for anything more indepth. Am I right in now thinking that just an ot statement doesn't bump her up the admissions list?

In which case we're pretty much guaranteed to get in the CofE school over the road, which isn't very good. Oh crap.