ex-h and I disagreeing on choice of school - objective opinions really needed

[QueenOfLists]

We've narrowed our choice down to 2 - both have outstanding ofsted reports, both are within 1.5 miles.

a) Catholic school (we're not catholic) - has an excellent local reputation for the quality of the teaching and the high standards of behaviour of the children. However, the school building is quite small and has a more 'cramped' feeling than the other. Also, we're finding it difficult to get a handle on how much religious aspect there is - it seems quite a lot with the local priest being in and out of the school all the time, prayers maybe twice daily, and masses on high days. The school prospectus says RE should occupy 10% of the timetable, and year 6 go on a 'retreat'(!)

or b) non-faith school - has a good reputation and the buildings are all new and spacious. However it's a larger school (45 intake rather than 30, plus a nursery of 60) and the structure of the classes seems overcomplicated (older ones from one year with younger ones of year above). Also, their open day is scheduled for sometime in January (possibly after the admissions closing date!) - we did arrange to be shown round this week, but it was by the receptionist, not the headteacher, and she initially was only going to show us the reception class, we had to ask to see the rest of the school. We didn't see any of the older children in classes as it was breaktime so we couldn't really get an impression of the teaching.

DD currently goes to a very small nursery, which she loves. Some of her friends from there are going to each of the two schools so from a social point of view either would suit.

At the moment ex-h favours one and I favour the other (not saying which!) but I'm getting a bit lost in the pros/cons of each - can somebody give me some perspective please?!

A statement is issued by the LEA, after many reports and meetings with many different professionals involved. It states the disabilities/difficulties a child has and what provision in education will be given to enable the child to access education and what the school and LEA have to legally provide.

Having a statement doesn't bump you up any lists. A school is listed on the statement that will be the best school that will suit her special needs. Parents do get input but so does everyone else involved.

If a particular school is written into the statement, then a child will get into that school - as that is the school decided. Just having a statement doesn't mean you can just pick any school, it is a very specific document

Ok, she's not getting that sort of statement. So one just from the ot will not specify a school I suppose? In which case she just follows the normal admissions criteria?

I'm pretty sure she would follow the normal admissions criteria. Depending on whether other schools are oversubscribed or not she might well get in there, so she doesn't necessarily have to go to your nearest school.

It sounds like you're talking about going for admission in what is (in this area) category 2, "exceptional medical or social need", or words to that effect. To do this, you will need to tick the right box on the application, get supporting letters from all relevent medical professionals (consultants, OT, HV, anyone else you can think of!), AND write a letter outlining why the school you are putting 1st is the school that best meets your DC's needs, what those needs are, what impact (practical, social, emotional) those needs have on her (and the rest of the family). You could also include why other schools would NOT be able to meet those needs.

The LEA will review your application under that category, decide whether you meet the criteria and either accept the medical grounds - in which case you'll get a place at the school as you'll be in virtually the top category - or they won't, in which case you'll go into the standard distance category which is normally after the siblings and for the faith schools normally after those baptised into the faith, attending the parish church, attending other churches of the same faith, etc.

HTH, and good luck.

Bugger. The 2 good schools are both oversubscribed - last year the nearest pupil lived 0.3 miles away from each. The not so good one had plenty of spaces.

Time for a new strategy then...

No, an OT's letter will not specify a school. It may outline her needs but not sure what the geneticist was getting at as it won't make much difference to what school your child will go to.

You can ask for child to assessed for a statement of SEN, self refer but they aren't easy to get

As I said before, a statement doesn't let you cherrypick a school, it has to be proven that a particular school is most beneficial to the child.

So yes, she will follow normal admission criteria

xpost Rue - just checked the admissions criteria book and there is no mention at all of that category. It just says 1) in care, 2) siblings, 3) by distance.

That's a shame. You could always try asking the LEA if they have such a category? Though if they haven't published it, I guess they don't, I think I'm clutching at straws on your behalf :o

Thanks . Will need to do some more investigating all round I think to clarify how it all works.

QofL, everything you have said over the last few posts says to me that you need to completely review what your options are.
You need to be looking at the schools that you might think are OK for your child. If you have a CoE school across the road and it has the same admission criteria as you have posted then that is your fall back position. The way that the admission process works is called equal preference. In reality you can put down the most local school as you last preference and the likelyhood is that you will get an offer of a place for the school. For each a list is drawn up in admission criteria order and then they look at your first preference and see if you are high enough up the list to be offered a place. If they then look at your second preference etc. Because you should be high up on the list of your least preferred school you should get the offer of a place, but by being sensible about your other preferences you might get a more favoured school.

That leaves you the opportunity to look for other schools that you might prefer but are more long shots in terms of admission criteria. So maybe your outstanding school with 45 intake is your first preference but you accept that it is a long shot, given previous admission history. You need to look for another school that is closer than a mile but one you might prefer over the most local school that you have a reasonable chance of getting in.
Just to be clear also both your preferred schools will, because of their intake number, be infant class size regs cases if you appealed for a place. The only way to succeed at such an appeal would be to prove a mistake is made - very unlikely. Any appeal around you child's special needs would be irrelevant.

Thanks admission, that's pretty much the conclusion I'd come to thinking about it. There is another school with double intake that we discounted early on because of its size - dd always seems happier in smaller environments. but we would probably get in there so will have a look at that as 2nd choice and maybe drop the catholic one.

also discovered that next local authority (border is 1 mile away) does have medical considerations on their criteria, but they don't have any outstanding schools remotely near us, and we have no medical reason to send her miles away. It's a lottery isn't it?

Don't just look at outstanding schools. What is ofsted outstanding might not be outstanding for your child, schools go down the grades as well as up, and things change at schools all the time.
Go and look is the best way to judge.

Bigger schools often have better funding, and have a chance to be more flexible in how they use their resources (eg. my DCs 3 form entry school has 2 specialist SEN teachers, some very senior teaching assistants, and some part time specialist teachers, in addition to the class teachers).

Don't go to a Catholic school if you're not Catholic (unless there is no other choice)

My dcs school was satisfactory when they started. Is now rated as good.

Same school as it ever was IMO - has generally been brilliant. The ofsted rating hasn't suddenly changed it from one thing into another. Another point is that the school with a 60 intake doesn't actually mean your dd will be in large groups for much of the time - our school has 60 intake but in practice the children are generally taught in smaller groups and never more than 30. Which would be the case in a 30 intake school. Nearby school has 180 intake (6 reception classes) in the infants school (ours is infants and juniors). While that school is huge, it's also very good at making it seem smaller and does actually have an outstanding ofsted. Also has lots of lovely money because so many kids, fantastic grounds and equipment and strong sports teams and loads of lunch time and after school clubs.

I have just moved to Bolton,Lancashire last month. Im looking for a primary place next year for my daughter. Does anyone know any good catholic primary schools around? Im Catholic but I don't mind her going to state schools, so any names of good primary schools will be highly appreciated.

Markland Hill Primary was always good.

ok - it sounds as though they are expecting you to sort your own admission by the normal process, and then the ot will do an access assessment and come up with any alterations that are required.

someone really needs to be going through this with you tbh - if you decided on a school and then the ot says it needs minor adjustments for access, the school may well decide to request statutory assessment (for a 'statemet' after all - and that takes 6mos if it's straightforward)

i suggest you call your lea and ask to speak to the area inclusion officer that deals with your area (and the particular schools you have in mind) and ask to go through the transition process with her.

dd2 has a physical disability and had a statement (a real one, lol) as well as an occupational therapy access assessment before yr r. the ot access report was extremely important - if alterations need to be made, they need to be budgeted for somewhere - and if the child does not have a statement, that usually means by the school.

call your lea and ask to discuss transition to yr r with the area inco.

then call the schools and ask to meet the ht and the senco for each school and discuss your dd's support needs (even if it is just a bar in the loos and ahandsoap dispenser that she can reach.)

you need to make sure that all of the eventualities have been covered here.

and you haven't been particularly well advised, i don't think.

an ot report will only bump her up the list if she requires an accessible school and only one of them is. that's about it...

OK the year 6 retreat could be one day, but tretreats are normally a week - so mass every day plus prayer plus - well personally I'd call it brainwashing, but others would be more polite.

I attended some RC and some non RC schools plus RC VI form. VI form RE is totally different to that at primary.

At primary she will be told a lot of things as fact, are you comfortable with that?

When the class are aproaching first communion (and possibly confirmation) most of the school day will be spent in that prep, so dc will be spending a lot of time learning stuff totally useless to her.

The mixed classes scenario works really well at the primary school my dc's went to, it means there isnt a year difference between the eldest and youngest children. You will come up against the size issue again when it comes to secondary school choices, and won't have the option of a tiny school.
I wouldn't send my non religious DC's to a catholic school.

depedning on level of physical disability getting statement is very hard .takes a minmum of 26 weeks and thats a straight forward one where your not appealing.

ds3 has one but he has speech , GDD, , physical issues , and we needed Ot .Salt .Paed and physio and a Educational physcologist reports and we still had to appeal

sashh

there's a big difference between catholic schools so its important not to generalise. Im not catholic but went to catholic schools and had no more religious teaching than my friends in community schools.

DDs catholic school is not into 'brainwashing' either! Some people have negative opinions of catholic schools but most of the ones i know (i have friends in many) have mass rarely - dd's school only has school assembly for 20 mins once a week. DD has been in her outstanding catholic primary for 2 years and only once been to the associated church. The local community school and CE seem more 'religious' than hers. Most schools teach god through loving others and each other - of course the story of god is taught but i think thats actually on the national curriculum of all schools.

I think the negative aspects of catholic schools are old fashioned and certainly not the experience of people i know who have attended in the last 10 years but admit it may be like that in some areas.

I don't know any schools that do mass every day anyone!

anymore