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DVDs in class

118 replies

anotherglass · 01/12/2011 20:51

My son (Y4) tells me today that his teacher is putting on Maths and Grammar DVDs during class time. They watch the DVDs then might do a worksheet or might not. Is this normal in other schools? Why are teachers who and trained and paid to teach sticking on DVDs? He is at the local comp.

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
anotherglass · 03/12/2011 00:59

Grain of truth?

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anotherglass · 03/12/2011 01:01

Is your partner out.

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handsomeharry · 03/12/2011 01:02

Not even close.Grin

I'm not a 'harry', I'm a 'harriet'. Grin

anotherglass · 03/12/2011 01:03

Even better!

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handsomeharry · 03/12/2011 01:04
Grin
anotherglass · 03/12/2011 01:05

You've let down your guard tonight Harriet. It's lairy hour on mumsnet. My guess is you're not on the tea. Gotta go, but nice chatting to you.

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handsomeharry · 03/12/2011 01:07

Good night OP.

I am on the tea though.

teacherwith2kids · 03/12/2011 10:59

Another,

I think that you have confused (on this thread at least) the judicious use of video / DVD CLIPS as part of a lesson, and the use of a WHOLE DVD or the use of a DVD as a replacement for a teacher (ie to deliver a whole lesson).

I use video clips - short ones, max 5 minutes or less - occasionally as part of lessons. I use interactive whiteboard resources e.g. maths games on a very regular basis e.g. at the start or end of a lesson to warm children up or recap what we have learned in a motivating way. In either case, it would be 5 minutes or so out of a 1 hour lesson. I occasionally use similar interactive resources or games to emphasise particular grammar points e.g. 'add the punctuation' games.

In teaching a history topic, for example, I might show a slightly longer clip of e.g. archive film footage of the second world war as an input to discussion or writing or art work or role play.

These are not a REPLACEMENT for teaching, they are part of the armoury of resources i use that also include 'chalk and talk', audio cliups, pictures, physical learning, role play, writing, practical activities, children doing their own research, children rehearsing new skills, etc etc etc.

Feenie · 03/12/2011 12:17

I use video clips occasionally - probably all teachers do. During our last Ofsted, I taught a Literacy lesson on persuasion and showed a clip of the Barclaycard advert with the man on the water chute. It was an ideal opening for our work and discussion, and the inspector said it was an outstanding lesson. It's just one of many types of useful and engaging media.

anotherglass · 03/12/2011 13:23

Teacherwith2kids, you are making the same point as plenty of others before you. I said that I am concerned about over-use of these aides. It is obviously a concern shared with the school as the head teacher is investigating.

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anotherglass · 03/12/2011 13:33

My son says that his teacher stuck on the Maths DVD and left the class for about half an hour (TA was left in the room). Hardly ideal practice.

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teacherwith2kids · 03/12/2011 13:48

Another,

Is it possible that this was during the teacher's PPA time or NQT time? As an NQT, she is allowed two tenths of the week non-contact time - one tenth which every teacher gets, and an extra tenth because she is an NQT, used for meetings with her mentor, observations of other teachers and other schools, professional development activities etc etc.

Schools vary in the way non-contact time is covered - we use external sports coaches, my children's school is big enough to employ a teacher to cover PPA for several classes - but schools do use HLTA qualified TAs to cover PPA time. It may be that the se of 'consolidation' videos, administered by the TA, is one way in which your school has decided to cover a teacher's non-contact time (or one of a 'portfolio' of ways in which that is covered over the weeks - there m ay be different activities on different weeks. Not brilliant, I agree, but non-contact time is part of a teacher's contract.

anotherglass · 03/12/2011 13:59

This thread has been educaitonal for me, that's for sure. I have a much better idea of what is going on in the classroom, and how e-learning tools can be effective, when used judiciously. I shall wait and see what the HT has to report back to me on Monday.

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yellowraincoat · 03/12/2011 14:09

So, why wait til everyone has replied til you decide to tell us it was on for half an hour? Everyone had asked you how long it was on for.

anotherglass · 03/12/2011 14:17

yellow, my son just told me. i was quizzing him again. sorry to drip feed but just found out.

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LikeAnAdventCandleButNotQuite · 03/12/2011 17:36

I wonder how many people on here would be equally aghast at employment training being delivered on DVD (Common practice)... Web-Casts, where managers from various branches meet online while a slideshow of training is displayed....health and safety DVDs being shown on a course with a worksheet given out afterwards.

These are all standard practice in most workplaces, and something I nor anyone I have ever worked with have batted an eyelid at.

Partial teaching using these sorts of aids is condusive with learning, just in a different format.

I also agree with a pp above who said our kids are faced daily with multi media - it's the culture they grow up in. It makes sense that teaching styles reflect this.

I don't imagine for one minute that a teacher who uses dvds in lessons as teaching aids uses ONLY this method. It is supplimentary.

PastSellByDate · 03/12/2011 22:33

Hi anotherglass:

I can see that you have your doubts about e-learning. I suspect that you have cause.

I'm not trying to persuade you to change your mind, but I thought it might help you if you could hear of an example where e-learning surprasses actual living human beings.

My DD1 is lovely, but is easily distracted and often loses her train of thought, which is a hindrance when learning new and complicated things, like subtracting. By Easter Y2 she was unable to even take 1 from 10. She just didn't get it. There was the usual asking the teacher (not particularly helpful sort or friendly, so that didn't go well). Raising it with the Head (helpfully gave us the national curriculum - not completely sure how that helps). Having more meetings - this time with SENCO - DD1 doesn't have learning difficulties, but what we need to understand is that she's just not that bright.

So we were left to it. The school gave no suggestions, didn't put in place any extra work or support and weren't interested in recommending workbooks or mathsbooks to us to help her at home.

We were in complete dispair when a chance article in a magazine about Carol Vorderman lead me to Mathsfactor - www.themathsfactor.com.

Now this e-tutorial has its fans and it opponents. I'm not saying it is all things to all people. However, for us it was a miracle. We started with lessons 5 x a week in April 2009 and slowly but surely 11,880 sums later and 1 1/2 years later my struggling little girl is now flying high. She's moved right up the ranks to top set in maths at school. Her mental maths are astounding - she easily beats her father at two digit sums (e.g. 23 + 55 or 84 - 27). She's learned her times tables to x12 (whereas the school stops at x10). She's learned column addition/ subtraction to 3 digits (her school will not do this until Y5). She's really taken to it and it has made such a difference.

The school clearly don't approve of our approach, but then I suppose our attitude shocks them. We've openly told them what DD1 learns in school is only supplmenting, and frankly usually reviewing, what we're doing at home. I'm certain this is very offensive, but then if 'highly trained professionals' dump parents with a child who is struggling and get huffy when resourceful parents go and find something that does work themselves - Hard Cheese!

I don't suppose it is for everyone. But anotherglass, don't go throwing the baby out with the bathwater. An excellent teacher is irreplaceable - they can inspire and broaden horizons - but a mediocre and disorganised teacher (which are pretty common at my DDs' school) can inch by inch cost valuable time and learning opportunities.

I suppose the starkest example I can give is that at present at a school 1 mile away, their Y4 is learning long division and square roots right now. My DDs class is working on ranking fractions by size (1/2 is bigger than 2/6th) and 2/3rds of her class have yet to master their times tables to x10 (they don't teach to x12). My understanding is that long division won't happen at my DDs school until Y6. Our DDs school isn't bad - it's rated GOOD by OFSTED, but it does seem to have issues with routines and homework. I'd say that my DDs class is roughly 6 months to a year behind other Y4 classes I know of, through friends' children. And I believe that gap is expanding, largely because the school really doesn't like setting homework outside reading 20 minutes a day. It's that gradual loss of opportunity that I find irritating. E-learning has ensured that at least in my DDs case she has that opportunity at practice and won't lose out so badly as to be unable to access higher level maths and science come Senior School.

Perhaps as an older parent (well past 40), my expectations are out of line with today's younger parents - but all I want is for my child to be able to add, subtract, multiply and divide with confidence by the end of primary. It was clear the school didn't share that view, so we went our own way with e-learning for maths and have never looked back.

2littlecherubs · 03/12/2011 22:38

What is wrong with putting a DVD on? My ds is in reception and once a week teacher puts on a short numbers DVD. Ds loves it and comes home every Thursday telling me about the number DVD he watched that day. I hear about what number it was, and then how they did different games involving the number after etc.
Why would I be unhappy about that.

anotherglass · 04/12/2011 07:28

Thanks for your post pastsellbydate. Great got a good outcome for your daughter as it sounds like a very frustrating situation. I too am frustrated with the school. If I felt confident in my DS's teacher I wouldn't be posting, that's the underlying problem really, not use of technology. We had to push for maths homework.

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PastSellByDate · 04/12/2011 07:53

Hi Anotherglass:

I'm glad you wrote back. I agree homework is the key thing - it gives children the oppotunity at practice and reflection on learning. It was the lack of math homework that made us jump into e-tutorials (there was virtually no math homework at our school - Y1: 6 math assignments total & Y2: 10 math assignments total).

I stumbled across this [homework what parents need to know] at some point and found it extremely useful in arguing my case with the school: www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Schoolslearninganddevelopment/SchoolLife/DG_179508

If your school isn't regularly offering homework other than reading than they are in the wrong. You have to follow channels. Approaching the teacher/ subject leader & head. Then approaching the governors. But after that you can complain directly to OFSTED.

Hope that helps.

anotherglass · 04/12/2011 09:11

That's fantastic, thanks pastsellbydate. I totally agree with you about homework, but it's been a real struggle since day 1 with this school. DS in y4 used to get 1 spelling worksheet and reading per week. This was increased to maths worksheet after parents pushed for more. The teacher actually said to me that the school doesn't have a homework policy, which was disingenuous as it does (only applied at teacher's discretion). Thanks v much for the link. I know it's only guidance but it doesn't harm to let the school know that parents are aware of the expectation and should be given a legitimate and valid reason why the guidance is not being met. Did you try this at your school?

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PastSellByDate · 04/12/2011 18:12

Hi Anotherglass:

We never got organised enough as parents to act as a group but we have now learned that several of us had raised this issue of lack of homework (other than reading) at various points as individuals over the last 4 years. The solution was not our asking (or indeed begging for some homework) but Ofsted scheduling to inspect sometime this school year.

I'm not sure what happens post-Ofsted - but at least this year our DDs are reaping the benefits of having the teachers scrutinized.

anotherglass · 04/12/2011 19:45

Hi PastSellByDate,

What were the schools reasons for only giving minimal homework?

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IndigoBell · 04/12/2011 19:50

Lots of research has been done which shows a negative correlation between the amount of homework given and grades got.

ie kids who did more homework tend to get worse grades.

The jury is very much out whether or not homework is a good thing. Alfie Kohn is very much against it - The Homework Myth

Now, I'm sure you won't agree with Alfie Kohn. I'm just saying it's not simple. Nobody really knows how much and what type of homework is the best - and your HT may believe any of a number of different competing theories.

Obv the govts line is that homework is good and kids should be getting lots. But it's only recommendations, not law. It is up to each HT (well technically the governing body) to decide each school's homework policy.

teacherwith2kids · 04/12/2011 20:49

As someone who sets homework - spellings once a week, reading every night if possible and maths / writing tasks alternative weeks - I can say that it is DEFINITELY not as simple as 'homework good / no homework bad'.

I have everything from

  • Parent does homework for child

via

  • Parent drills child for hours to do and re-do homework until it is perfect, often using methods which are unfamiliar to the child and at odds to what we do in school

through the (intended)

  • Parent finds a time and place for child to do homework and offers a little support and encouragement

to

  • Parent is illiterate / absent / asleep because of working nights / mentally ill / drunk and therefore is not in any position to give any support. If child can find a space to do homework, they will do it if they have motivation and can understand exactly what they have to do with no support, otherwise they won't.

Because of that, as a teacher I cannot rely on a child having learned anything at all from homework (as only the third group, and the more able and motivated in group 4 above learns anything at all). I therefore only ever set 'rehearsal' tasks which go over something we have already done in class BUT as between a quarter and a third of my class fits into the last group (and those are only the ones who aren't 'covering up' such a situation) I also allow rehearsal time in class.

If I set more, more challenging, more unfamiliar homework, then groups 1,2 and 4 would fall further and further behind group 3 (and worse, the falling behind of ngroups 1 and 2 would be invisible as their homework would appear to be very good). As it is my responsibility that everyone in the class should make progress, regardless of their home circumstances, the marginal extra benefit to the minority of children in group 3 (how is 20 minutes or some of homework meant to convey more benefit that many times that amount of time in class?) is not worth the disbenefit to the majority.

So I'm with Indigo that the benefit of homework, over and above daily reading and learning of tables (and spellings BUT only in context, not in spelling tests) is unclear.

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