Help me with meeting with 'scary' maths teacher today!

[Solo2]

DS1 aged 10 is hugely anxious about maths and struggling to keep up in the third of 4 maths sets. His teacher is 'old school' and retires at the end of term. DS1 is terrified of him, daren't ask if he gets stuck and has lots of umarked HW and classwork in his book. If he ever asks for help in class, the teacher just tells him to go back to his seat and 'look at it again'.

I met the teacher last week at parents' evening and MY main topic was DS1's anxiety and how we might help him. DS1 also has processing difficulties that slow him down and obviously this causes masses of problems in things like mental maths tests and timestables tests - plus his anxiety.

Not for the first time, DS1 spent 1.5 hrs on maths HW the other night, developing an awful migraine headache as a result. I'd previously been told by the teacher to stick to the school rule of no more than 50 mins HW but since then, DS1 has been told off for being 'lazy' and 'using' this rule to avoid doing all the HW. So - again not for the first time - DS1 did all the HW with which he really struggled (as did I too!! - they work 2 yrs ahead of the age group at the school).

I emailed the teacher to let him know what was happening and ask how we might jointly support DS1 in maths generally but specifically, to help him feel less anxious. The teacher set up a meeting for tonight (they're not striking) but with DS1 to attend too.

Meanwhile, after getting my email - the teacher took DS1 to one side, alone, after class and told him off for doing more HW than the maximum time limit allows - yet reiterated that he should actually spend 50 mins on each of the two maths sections - thus a total of 1.5 hrs - which is exactly what DS1 HAD done! DS1 is confused and frightened. The teacher also told DS1 off for telling his mum he's anxious and told him, "You're NOT anxious - certainly never in my class!"

I think the teacher intends to use the meeting today to make DS1 tell me what the teacher wants him to say, ie "no I'm not really anxious in maths...yes, I'm to blame for spending too long on HW..." My focus is on how we reduce DS1's general anxiety. When he began at this prep. school, DS1 was good at maths, thought of maths as fun puzzles and was doing fine. He's gone downhill over the 3 and a bit yrs here. He's had 6 different maths teachers in the last 2 yrs alone and two of these have used sarcasm and public humiliation as strategies to push DS1 on further. These strategies don't work with DS1. He's just become more anxious.

How do I manage this difficult meeting tonight? DS1 believes the teacher will just take it out on him in the days following, for 'telling mum' about the teacher and I expect he's right, sadly. DS1 has a twin in the same maths group who is equally terrified if the maths teacher, has also gone downhill in maths and just tries to keep a low profile. Whilst a twin can't be an objective 'witness' to what goes on, he's certainly saying all the same things as DS1.

What's my best 'strategy' with this teacher. Is there a good way of 'playing it' so that the outcome is more encouragement of DS1 rather than further reprisal?

He leaving in two weeks?

Why worry? Look forward to the fresh start.

what a shit teacher
wonder if this retirement is entirely voluntary

take notes. find out what the school rules are for homework. ask him what ds should do whwen he is stuck. make a note of it. write on the bottom the homework that ds has done 45 minutes as agreed.

you do not have to take ds. you could send him out and stare hard at the teacher if he objects. you could send ds to a friends mum.

sorrry rushing off.

He's a well respected teacher who has reached the natural age of retirement. He's had a reputation for being strict and disciplinarian but good at explaining things v clearly in Maths. Neither of my DTs has found the latter to be the case however. The new teacher - IF DTS remain in this group - is coming temporarily off maternioty leave with a long commute each day. IF DTs are demoted to the bottom group (which would be their second demotion), it'd be a huge blow to their confidence but at least the class size there would be smaller and with more TA support and a kinder teacher.

The reason for this last moment meeting with the current teacher is, I suppose, partly because I can't see that the teacher followed through with anything he promised at the Parents' Evening: he still hasn't marked DTs past work; he seems to have further increased DTs anxiety and lack of confidence; he seems to continue to ignore their struggles with understanding the set work; he remains unclear about how much maths HW they should do - is this 50 mins maximum - or is it "complete the whole exercise no matter how long it takes".

I suppose I'm looking for a reasonable explanation from him. He seems unable to see that DT1 is nervous and anxious - so perhaps in this meeting I can emphasise this. But how do you tell anyone that your child is afraid of them without that person feeling defensive? Of course he'll deny it or he'll blame the child for meriting harsh treatment.

The way I'd hoped it would go would be that, in the context of a discussion, where I'm asking him to draw on his years and years of experience teaching maths to help DT1 feel more confident and less anxious - then at the same time, I could convey the subtle message that DT1 seems to have reason to be afraid and surely we'd all want to 'work together' to reduce that anxiety? - ie by me making the assumption that we're all working from the same page in wanting to reduce DT1's anxiety, that makes it thereby harder for the teacher to continue frightening and confusing him.

I do intend to remind him that scared people - especially children - are often too anxious to show their fear and try to put on a bluff front. DT1 however tells me he doesn't even hide his fear.....So why the teacher believes he's not anxious, then i don't know.

I've read your posts about this teacher before.

He's a bully who isn't doing his job properly, however 'well-respected' he is.

Hope that your children get a better teacher next term.

I truly don't understand why anyone would pay for their children to be taught 2 years ahead of their age, then put through this stress.

Sorry.

Poor child..my only advice is look forward to a new start with the next teacher. Speak to the new teacher as soon as possible, outline your concerns and show you are suppotive towards helping your child.

There is such little time left..is it really worth discussing anything with that teacher?

I would not take my child into a meeting like that..what good will it do except cause more upset for the child. He is only 10...probably a waste of time speaking to Headteacher..if the teacher has been there for years and about to retire...you will get nowhere.

Can you help your child at home yourself...in addition to doing all the home work? Can you afford a tuition for a term until your child improves in confidence?

I don't think I would take DS to the meeting and I would tell the teacher that your son is 'scared' of him and that this is bound to impact on his performance. This particular teacher's methods are obviously wrong for your son and I would have been pushing for a different teacher if he were not about to retire. Just tell him that your son does not respond as well as his brother to the harsh tactics employed.

If this teacher is so well respected then it may be that this is not the right school for DT1. There is an Independent School near us and people keep saying that you have to be fairly 'tough' to go there. I imagine that what they mean is that there are more that a few teachers of you son's maths teachers ilk on the staff.

Good luck with it all .

Don't take your ds to this meeting.

Why are your children at this school?

Could it be that because this teacher is about to retire he has simply lost the will to "try harder" with those students that need him?

In your shoes, I would probably book a meeting with the new teacher and explain how anxious your child is with maths. If things don't improve though, I would seriously consider a change of school.

First for some of us "Maths"is a scary subject.I suspect your anxiety over Maths is overflowing onto your child. He knows you are really worried about his position in school and his worries over the Maths, and the whole thing is escalating.
I was rubbish at Maths, and my son was also (I thought) pretty unmathematical. He only got a 4 in the SATs. But this year a different side of him has come out at Secondary. He's been put in second Maths set rather than the bottom, teacher says he has good "thinking" skills. I have never ever pressured him over his Maths, and he has never ever got upset over it, except when I remember trying to make him revise some concepts for SATS. Then he got in a complete state and started saying he was hopeless at it, couldn't understand it. I backed off straightaway, and he seems to be doing very well this term for some strange reason....

At his Secondary, the teaching is much more robust, it is Science and Maths specialist school too, and they are genuinely trying to get the boys on board thinking round problems. I remember that was the approach in my [private] secondary; I had a wonderful wonderful teacher who led me through the maze even when I was in tears thinking I couldn't understand. I was in third out of four sets in a very academic private school. And completely blessed with a very old fashioned teacher who explained things so that we weren't frightened. Getting a "C"in my O'level was one of my proudest moments I still know people who back in 70's,80's did not pass their Maths O'level.

Don't take your son into this meeting. The teacher may be right that your child is less pressured in class, it is only when he gets home and starts doing the homework and feeling that pressure build up in his head - "homework" "Mum is worried" "I can't do it" that the anxiety starts.

Just look forward to new teacher and good riddance to old. We can't all be brilliant at Maths, but we can be adequate; Maths after all is a springboard to science and music.

Please don't tie yourself in knots with this school.

Firstly, if you do go ahead with the meeting, I would't let your son be there, his confidence is knocked already and being there won't help that, he doesn't need to see you getting anxious about the situation too.

Secondly, I can't see the point of seeing this teacher, he is obviously 'old' school and will be off in a few weeks, so why even waste your time? it hasn't made a difference before and probably won't now. The only reason for the meeting is to make you feel a bit better about what has gone on, it won't probably serve any purpose towards what will happen in the future, apart from probably make the old teacher pass on to the new teacher (in his words, not yours), that you are a worryer or some such thing.

There are only a few weeks left of the term, I would draw a line under it and breath a sigh of relief he is going and look to the future with a new teacher.

Do you know the new teacher?, (not sure what a long commute has to do with things, why do you mention that?), are they more patient and understanding? Can you arrange a meeting as soon as possible and then tell them your concerns, putting the spin on it that you are so pleased they have taken over and what you feel about your sons confidence?

You also need to make your sons feel that this is a new start, can you 'big up' the new teacher?, tell them that after Christmas things will be different etc., I would also prepare them for going down if necessary, OK it could knock their confidence, but if that teacher is more understanding, it will ease the pressure - I suppose it is how you 'sell' it to them really too, as a positive thing, not a negative, to be able to work at their own pace, without the pressure etc. etc.

Best of luck

I'm confused about your son working two years beyond where he should be when he's in the third of four sets? What level are the top set working at!?

Is this a state school?

I really wouldn't let DS be at the meeting. If he is there, I suggest you try and talk to the teacher without him first and then have him come in once you have explained that your DS is scared.

In secondary school I was put in top set maths and had the same teacher for years 8 and 9. She managed to reduce the entire class of 26 to tears at least twice each. She was a bully and I was just like your DS - I wouldn't ask for help because she'd laugh at me and I hated answering questions. I still panic when I see numbers. I moved schools for GCSEs and was put in the middle set. My (lovely) teacher took me to one side and suggested I should move up a set. I burst into tears and said "please don't make me". I think he was a bit scared, but I got so much confidence back in just a few weeks of having a teacher who respected the way I work and showed me that it didn't matter if I got things wrong. Explain to his teacher that he is scared, confused and not motivated by the teacher's techniques.

Give the new teacher a try, but I would meet her at the start of term and discuss the issues you discuss in your meeting today so that she can help. Having said that, it might be worth not saying anything for a week or two and see if she notices problems. I'm not sure if that would work at your DT's school.

Your DS can see that you are fighting his corner for him, and I think that's invaluable to a child. He just needs to see a teacher doing it too. Once he's had that for a bit, I'm sure he'll improve.

Your twins seem to have constant problems at this school and so do you - from reading your posts.

I won't suggest you move them to a school where they will be happy as that has been suggested to you many times in the past and you clearly don't want to consider that option. May I ask which school this is and what is so great about its reputation that you will endure so much to keep your boys there?

No sarcasm intended, I am genuinely intrigued as to why you stick with it no matter how unhappy your boys are, there must be something amazing to make all this anxiety worth it?

I think that's a bit unfair Takeonboard.
I suspect some of us are just worriers, and seek advice for aspects of the same problem over and over again. Like husbands, or unruly children, or untidy houses, or feeling blue.
Nowt wrong with getting upset by same problems over and over, most of us do..
Trick is to find some positive solution, ultimately.

I know I complain about same problem for years on end, not necessarily Maths or on Mumsnet, but dark kitchen, whingy kids, disorganisation. Surely that's is what a forum is for...

Re. the new teacher, this will be a teacher who is completely new to the school, is only coming for 2 terms, is coming off maternity leave and will I think have to commute from about 70 miles away - unless they have temporary local accomodation. No parents or children have yet met her. I suppose I'm just a bit worried that she'll be like I was for the first 6 months post twins - totally caught up in the days and nights of feeding and not sleeping and my main concern being my babies - not work. I may well be completely and utterly wrong however.

Secondly we won't know till the end of this term what maths set my DTs will be in or even if one will be in a different lower set to his twin. Twins are worried they'll be demoted and I sort of hope they will be - yet don't want their confidence knocked even more.

Not sure how I'd get out of NOT taking DT1 to the meeting today as it's a done deal and the other twin already knows he'll have to sit and wait in the car etc etc. DT1 is expecting to attend and teacher is expecting both of us.

I wonder if I can march in with DT1 and say straightaway to DT1 in front of the teacher - "We're here so that Mr X can reassure you about how well you're trying in Maths and to help you to stop worrying so much" - as a way of setting the agenda to Mr X...

Yes, I'm fairly dyscalculic myself and have memories of being whacked in front of the class at age 6 when I got something wrong in maths, as you had to come out in front and give the answers standing up. As a 4 yr old, I was put into the class of 6 yr olds (being so called bright) but was terrified of maths. On a good day - thereafter throughout my education - I could get 99% and on a bad day, 47%. I ended up also with a C at O level - my worst and only C grade. I've barely touched maths since a stats component at Uni about 30 yrs ago now and can barely do my DCs maths!

This school is a v v academic school where you have to jump through hoops to get in and so psychologically harder to leave voluntarily once your DCs are in. It's top rated compared with other local schools. DTs 'hold their own' in the maths which is 2 yrs beyond aged 10 level. But because many children are working way beyond that and several got 100% in recent exams, DTs believe themselves to be hopeless at maths. In an ordinary school, they'd possibly be in the top set.

What I need the school to do is find a better way of supporting those children who aren't actually 'failing' but who, by comparison with their peers, are struggling to do well. I suspect that teachers who've worked here a long time are so used to enjoying maths geniuses whizzing through GCSE standard at age 10 that they don't 'hone' their skills for working with children who are more average-bright.

I do intend to meet with whoever their next teacher is, early next term. In the meantime, I just can't have DT1 distressed so much again to the point of getting a migraine and I'm cross that the school fees I'm struggling to pay aren't helping DTs to improve (they're actually going down in performance in maths) nor is DTs work being marked.

I know there are only 2.5 weeks to go however, so will try not to get too worked up with the whole scenario but you know when your child is distressed, it just ignites the protective lioness inside you and you want to stand by them and protect them. Pity I haven't got a muscular, 6ft partner to bring with me to the meeting! The teacher, whilst 'getting on in years' is massive, a muscular football fanatic and possibly (although I have absolutely no evidence of this) thinks that I - as a solo mum - have been 'too soft' on my sons and they need toughening up. I actually quite like him - completely separate to the issue with my sons - as he has a great dry sense of humour - which neither my DTs 'gets' at all. But as DTs mother, I'm not v happy and need clarification on what's going wrong.

I'll feedback how it goes today.

I wouldn't worry about their confidence being knocked if they are moved down a set - it might be initially, but I think the progress they make will help to rebuild any confidence.

I also just wanted to say that I completely understand your concerns about the new teacher but in a vague attempt at reassurance tell you that I did some work experience with a teacher who had just come off maternity leave. Every break she'd have a look at her phone and see if the childminder had texted her a photo, but during the lesson time you had NO idea she'd been off for a while. She was professional and enthusiastic and really good with the children. She was also good at sympathising with parents because, as a new parent herself, she could better understand the worries that you have.

Good luck, and try not to feel intimidated.

You 'get out of not taking him' by saying 'I've decided to go in on my own' to your DS who can then stay in the car with his brother. As for Mr Scary/quite nice you say 'I've decided to come on my own'. You don't even have to be a Lioness to do that .

I also think it is possible to get extremely emotional about schools. I think one relives a lot of one's own negative and positive experiences in the relationship with teachers, quite apart from worrying about children's futures.

I know I was a completely madwoman at last parents' evening, waving my arms around ranting about how my son found x difficult, couldn't draw, so grateful for help with x...I feel quite embarassed to think how all my pfb instincts came out. It is so so difficult not to get entangled.
I suppose the best advice anyone ever gave me was that you have to leave your childrens' relationships with their teachers to them. Listen, but don't interfere unless they are pyschopaths. They will find a level You can't keep micromanaging the school environment and the way it is run. Or you do have to leave.

Could I suggest that you think about what is good about this school - apart from its reputation? Your children are unhappy, you have massive doubts, you say that it's psychologically difficult to leave. Do you want mumsnet support to help you do that?

Am I the only mum thinking 50 minutes on 1 piece of homework at age 10 is very long.
I would be concerned if DD (also 10) spent more than 30 mins on a piece of maths homework.

This school is clearly quite wrong for your children (or for most children by the sounds of it).

Hate these awful places.

Yes, yes, I know I'm judging without absolutely all the facts and the children's shoe sizes blah blah. But I don't care, hate these pushy elitist schools that excel in making children's lives a misery.

Are you paying for your child to be the target of sarcasm and public humiliation?
If you can pay for their education, surely you can find somewhere that is good for him?

I also don't understand why you are putting your children through this - just to save face because it was hard to get them in? Do you feel like moving them would be admitting defeat?

It sounds like what they need is a kinder teacher, work at their level, and more support - I would forget about meeting the current teacher and just request they are moved down a set.

If the teacher is retiring at Christmas - 3 weeks? - I am not sure what the point of the meeting is. You can make a checklist of things you have told us here and work through the list with him, but I can't really see it serving any useful purpose with so short a time to go.

I also feel you should not take your son along to the meeting. I think you are right in thinking that the teacher wants to make him say that he isn't really anxious, and will try to put all the blame on him. Also, having DS1 there will be a distraction from what you want to say regarding the marking and suchlike.

I wouldn't worry about DS1 being moved to the bottom set. In the longer term it could boost his confidence if he finds the work more achievable and less of a struggle. Someone has to be in the bottom set and in a v v academic high-achieving school that will include many able children.